2020-21 Season Outlook

Violet Ram

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Jan 29, 2015
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VCU Athletics pays $35k from its budget for an out of state athlete on scholarship for tuition and fees (not a lot of our players are in state residents
$11k for room and board annually is a good estimate (pretty much 50-50 breakdown)
then University fees/ books etc
additional scholarships usually cost $50-60K annually all-in
Is that public information or an estimate? Also, why would the cost of an in-state athlete cost less than an out-of-state athlete? The cost to VCU would be the same.

EDIT: I think you may be using a number from an RAF fundraising material. The athletics department claims it cost just shy of 30k for an in-state scholarship. That figure appears to be based (approximately) on the cost of dividing total costs by the number of students (VCU reports total costs per year are 685M and there's 30k students; straight average would be 23k). Again, that's not factoring in economies of scale. VCU is not going to hire 5 new professors, 5 administrative staff, and 5 new culinary workers, and a new dorm for each student athlete admitted.
 
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Dec 16, 2013
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Is that public information or an estimate? Also, why would the cost of an in-state athlete cost less than an out-of-state athlete? The cost to VCU would be the same.
- here is a press release excerpt from VCU
in-state undergraduate students enrolled in 15 credits per semester will pay $14,710 in tuition and mandatory fees in the 2020-21 academic year. Out-of-state undergraduate students’ tuition and mandatory fees are set at $36,048. Room and Board is based upon an average from the existing rates on their website
the State provides funding for the education of in state students and not for out of state students - that is why there is a large differential between the instate and out of state tuition rates

the cost related to vcu teaching the students is the same .

VCU Athletics pays to the University the amounts for each scholarship athletes' tuition, fees room and board (many schools fund athletic scholarships from their endowments or annual fund-raising - VCU Athletics uses those sources plus University Fee funding from the university and other athletic revenues)
Athletics pays to the university the amounts the athletes are billed for tuition fees room and board (same at other universities) to accurately depict the true cost of athletics
A lot of inside baseball here I know, so I apologize in advance
Go Rams
 
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Violet Ram

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- here is a press release excerpt from VCU
in-state undergraduate students enrolled in 15 credits per semester will pay $14,710 in tuition and mandatory fees in the 2020-21 academic year. Out-of-state undergraduate students’ tuition and mandatory fees are set at $36,048. Room and Board is based upon an average from the existing rates on their website
the State provides funding for the education of in state students and not for out of state students - that is why there is a large differential between the instate and out of state tuition rates

the cost related to vcu teaching the students is the same .

VCU Athletics pays to the University the amounts for each scholarship athletes' tuition, fees room and board (many schools fund athletic scholarships from their endowments or annual fund-raising - VCU Athletics uses those sources plus University Fee funding from the university and other athletic revenues)
Athletics pays to the university the amounts the athletes are billed for tuition fees room and board (same at other universities) to accurately depict the true cost of athletics
A lot of inside baseball here I know, so I apologize in advance
Go Rams
Thanks for explaining. I edited my post above based on a few items. Where I disagree is things like "the cost related to vcu teaching the students is the same." Adding another student to a class of 100 doesn't increase the cost of the class by 1%.
 
Dec 16, 2013
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Thanks for explaining. I edited my post above based on a few items. Where I disagree is things like "the cost related to vcu teaching the students is the same." Adding another student to a class of 100 doesn't increase the cost of the class by 1%.
the actual cost for VCU (faculty plus overhead costs) to teach each in state student and an out of state student is the same is what I was saying
you are right increasing the class size from 99 to 100 (as an example) doesn't increase VCU's faculty and overhead cost any
 
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Violet Ram

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the actual cost for VCU (faculty plus overhead costs) to teach each in state student and an out of state student is the same is what I was saying
you are right increasing the class size from 99 to 100 (as an example) doesn't increase VCU's faculty and overhead cost any
Ah, misunderstood your point. Thought you meant the cost was the same to teach each student.

I still think that the cost for each additional student is minimal. The athletic dorm must have extra capacity for a number of reasons (such as being prepared for rule changes; problems with a room; etc.). Filling an otherwise empty dorm room isn't expensive. I would venture a guess that an additional basketball scholarship would cost the university less than 5k.
 

rammad90

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Jan 19, 2010
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The most benefit for the most people. If being shorted is playing a sport for 3 years and a free education and missing a final year to play, right, so be it. Still a great deal and experience. Next up. To grant the extra year could totally eliminate the opportunity for someone else. The most benefit for the most people.
Or grant an extension. Bring back last year’s seniors, and tell 4 of the incoming freshman they don’t have a scholarship. Landing spots will be few. They have a gap year, maybe similar opportunities are not there the following year. If they are, someone else loses a seat, and so on.

just pull off the tape and have the only negative being losing a year of athletic eligibility.
I dont see how one can logically favor one group over the other. However, your value system is your value system. For me, I think it better to extend the amount of scholarships available to all non-sanctioned programs, and let the players decide if they want to attend and/or come back as the case may be.

To say a freshmen incoming year, is more valuable to him as a player, than a seniors last year doesnt seem reasonable to me. Pulling the bandaid off, isnt the issue but rather the issue of equity is one that must be considered.

Good thing for the student athletes is that neither of us are making that decision.
 
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rammad90

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the actual cost for VCU (faculty plus overhead costs) to teach each in state student and an out of state student is the same is what I was saying
you are right increasing the class size from 99 to 100 (as an example) doesn't increase VCU's faculty and overhead cost any
It does increase the cost of teaching the course as the Professor will have to expend more work on the extra student. In your hypothetical you are just assuming that the cost will be born by the Prof that is typically not the case.

Further at most Universities, as you add additional students you have to add additional pay to the Profs. and/or cost of additional T/A's.
 

Violet Ram

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Jan 29, 2015
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It does increase the cost of teaching the course as the Professor will have to expend more work on the extra student. In your hypothetical you are just assuming that the cost will be born by the Prof that is typically not the case.

Further at most Universities, as you add additional students you have to add additional pay to the Profs. and/or cost of additional T/A's.
Huh? You think professors are paid on a per-student-head-basis? That's nonsense. Some professors may earn more or less depending on the number of courses they teach during the year (especially adjuncts), but not by the number of students. Tenured professors undoubtedly have a base income and minimum number of courses they must teach.

Question, why would anyone ever chose to teach the mid-1400's political philosophy class with 5 students over an intro Poli 101 class with 200 students if it meant reducing their income by a factor of 40? Also, such a payment structure would ruin academia since it would incentive being popular and 'easy' to garner more students.

Let's reverse it. Let's say a professor is paid to teach 5 classes with 50 students. Would you dock that professor's salary 20% if only 40 students enrolled in their classes? Now let's add those 5 extra athletes to those classes with only 80% capacity. Why should a professor be entitled to a salary increase for an 82% full class?
 
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mrgeode

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Mar 22, 2013
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Further at most Universities, as you add additional students you have to add additional pay to the Profs. and/or cost of additional T/A's.
In my experience it's just the opposite. The overall expenditure may be higher but the expenditure per educator tends to go down with more students. And that doesn't take adjuncts into account.
 
Dec 16, 2013
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It does increase the cost of teaching the course as the Professor will have to expend more work on the extra student. In your hypothetical you are just assuming that the cost will be born by the Prof that is typically not the case.

Further at most Universities, as you add additional students you have to add additional pay to the Profs. and/or cost of additional T/A's.
Faculty member is paid an annual salary by contract - he doesn't get paid any more or less if the class size is 2 more students or two less students (now if class size dramatically increases a new section would be added that increases need for another faculty member where vcu would hire an adjunct prof or require another salaried faculty member to pick up another section)
TA's pay is usually hourly - so based on the nature of what they do there maybe a slight increase if effort increases
 
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Havoc City

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Nov 8, 2014
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Faculty member is paid an annual salary by contract - he doesn't get paid any more or less if the class size is 2 more students or two less students (now if class size dramatically increases a new section would be added that increases need for another faculty member where vcu would hire an adjunct prof or require another salaried faculty member to pick up another section)
TA's pay is usually hourly - so based on the nature of what they do there maybe a slight increase if effort increases
He, she, or they
 
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Cyniclone

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Jan 30, 2013
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Losing eligibility to play A year is less damaging than a ripple effect with future classes. They still get to go to school and work out.
What if a vaccine is not available for a couple of years and multiple seasons are compromised? Do you just extend eligibility How ever many seasons until play resumes? Not practical. If this was the situation with basketball as it was for spring sports (and our seniors were worth having again) which Incoming freshman do you pull the plug on? It all sucks, but do you just delay everything? Granting extra eligibility is putting others out, maybe in some cases permanently.
If it looks like that a viable vaccine that's effective for most people and won't cost five figures is multiple years away, my guess is the colleges will come up with a more long-term or even permanent plan to bubble athletes and other students, rather than ad-hocing one like they've been forced to do now.
 
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As a former professor, I will tell you that faculty are paid a straight salary and are usually expected to teach a certain number of credits each semester. They can make more by teaching in the summer (but it is minimal....$3000 or so per course). This is for teaching faculty. Some with labs can reduce some of their teaching if they have grants. But the reduced teaching is limited and at some schools they even refuse to reduce teaching load
Many research faculty have a base salary and have a certain credit load (less than teaching faculty) but are expected to get grants and put part of their salary on the grant. At some high end research institutions, they come in and get a salary and are expected to have 50% or more paid through grants within 3 years or so. So their "university" paid portion of salary can end up lower than what the university pays for teaching faculty. Some have upwards of 80% of their salary paid off of multiple grants as well as stipends for graduate students and salaries and benefits for post-doc research associates. If they lose a grant or two after a time (grant is not renewed or they don't get another grant to cover it), the school will up their portion but usually the time on that is very limited. Researchers at MCV (or whatever it is called now) are expected to cover part of their salary, (but not sure what percentage) as well as funding for grad students and pos-docs. Most all of them do teach but certainly less than undergrad. If you lose a grant, you can teach more to cover the lost income upto a certain amount. Plus you have to publish your research. And your research has to be published in quality peer reviewed journals.
Now, I return you to the 2020 -21 season outlook.