A thread wishing for two bigs in at once (...occasionally)

HBK

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And Evans was out with a concussion, and Williams with a fractured finger. VCU won by 28! Osunniyi would not have changed the outcome today.
Nowhere in my post did I suggest the outcome of the game would have been different. Last time I checked, this thread was about playing two bigs and you mentioned Ward. Ward had a nice game, but if Osunniyi plays, then Ward’s day could have been less successful.
 

AlienAiden

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And... you think that would have made a difference in a 28 point win?
Probably not the way VCU was shooting but Osun makes a huge difference for them. He was hurt at the beginning of the season when they started 1-4 and upon his return they won something like 11 in row. Osun is a true 7 footer and he does make a huge difference for them. VCU was able to attack the glass with ease today and he would have altered that game plan.
 

Natty

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Probably not the way VCU was shooting but Osun makes a huge difference for them. He was hurt at the beginning of the season when they started 1-4 and upon his return they won something like 11 in row. Osun is a true 7 footer and he does make a huge difference for them. VCU was able to attack the glass with ease today and he would have altered that game plan.
I tend to agree that the sledding would've been tougher down low with him in, but worth noting last year we hit 64% of our shots inside the arc and just 27% from three with him active versus 58% inside and 40% out with him out of the lineup today. So I mean, you never know really, but yeah, he can hoop.
 
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AlienAiden

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I tend to agree that the sledding would've been tougher down low with him in, but worth noting last year we hit 64% of our shots inside the arc and just 27% from three with him active versus 58% inside and 40% out with him out of the lineup today. So I mean, you never know really, but yeah, he can hoop.
I have watched them and he has improved. I think VCU sets up nicely against Bona no matter what though.
 
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duncanlamb

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At some point you have to let Hasan play. Forget the "what ifs". I think he showed today he is deserving of some minutes, which he has not gotten recently.
no, I am with you....all I meant was that SBU was without their best big...they weren't as tall as they normally are.
 
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May 4, 2012
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And Evans was out with a concussion, and Williams with a fractured finger. VCU won by 28! Osunniyi would not have changed the outcome today.
Outcome ? No. Hyland had an excellent day. But the margin of victory, certainly. MSS had an excellent day as well with their big out. We didnt miss Evans thanks to Hyland going off.
 

Ramdog

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The outcome and VCU shooting 50%+ was certainly due to team not being tired...must have got a morning nap in ;)
 

Natty

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Margin of victory against teams ranked between 100-200 on kenpom
+14 v No.171 St. Francis PA
+12 v No.178 ODU
+10 v No.158 Missouri State
+5 @ No.136 Charleston
+13 @ No.156 George Mason
+28 v No.118 St. Bonaventure

Double our previous highest margin of victory against that group, against the highest ranked team AND without Evans or Williams.

Clearly we need more data from rolling out a lot more two-big looks because you can't go nuts from a one-game sample, but I reeeeeally liked what I saw with my own eyes and also what the numbers tell us.
 
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BracketForecast

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Margin of victory against teams ranked between 100-200 on kenpom
+14 v No.171 St. Francis PA
+12 v No.178 ODU
+10 v No.158 Missouri State
+5 @ No.136 Charleston
+13 @ No.156 George Mason
+28 v No.118 St. Bonaventure

Double our previous highest margin of victory against that group, against the highest ranked team AND without Evans or Williams.

Clearly we need more data from rolling out a lot more two-big looks because you can't go nuts from a one-game sample, but I reeeeeally liked what I saw with my own eyes and also what the numbers tell us.
gave up 28.3% of defensive rebound opportunties. Two % lower than our season average. May not seem like a lot, but those two extra shots for us vs our opponent could make all the difference in a close game.
 
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gave up 28.3% of defensive rebound opportunties. Two % lower than our season average. May not seem like a lot, but those two extra shots for us vs our opponent could make all the difference in a close game.
Lots of room for improvement and sp necessary. I was happier with Hyland's boards than his points actually. Need the guards rebounding better.
 
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Natty

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AND ANOTHER THING! ...(because this is my soap box of the week).

I don't see Dayton going on a 22-0 run in just over six minutes against VCU with two of our tough defensive-minded bigs (MSS, Corey & Hasan are all tough defenders in their own way) in there making things a challenge in the paint and beyond.

During that run, 10 of those 22 points are listed on ESPN as either a "dunk" or "layup". The Flyers shot 61.3% inside the arc against us that game -- 19 of their 26 makes were inside the arc, then they added another 20 points at the stripe. Our two best shot-blocking bigs combined for 8 minutes that game (8 for Corey, 0 for Hasan) in a matchup against the No.1 2p% offense in the country. Our coaches clearly know better than me, so perhaps they had some mad scientist strategy for that one that I won't understand, but I just think it makes sense in those types of games (against the current No.2 offense in the country) to play your best defenders a bit more.

To borrow and slightly alter a Will Wade quote from 2016...

“I know what we're doing now is going to work. We've got the right formula now…we've just got to do it (more).”

I enjoyed our win over Bona, not just because it was fun in the moment (and because Bones was unguardable), but because I saw something we did that game that we hadn't really been doing all season and to me, it flashed promise of something that will make us an exponentially better team on the year. Prior to really seeing that look, I thought our ceiling was lower. I thought we were a team that was going to have to have a lucky night from three to really beat good teams. I think now, if we make that one small tweak of using more of that two-big defensive-minded better rebounding lineup, we can beat anyone we play.
 

Natty

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Let's see how it did in another sample...

Half No.1
Open with usual starters (Kel at the 4, so not two bigs)
Sub Hasan in at 15:34 (Score is 12-11 VCU, +1 for small ball in 4:26 of action)

Corey + Hasan
Take score to 19-16 before subbing out at 12:02 (+2 for double bigs in 3:34 of action)

Interesting note: McAllister subbed in at this point (12:02 until 8:52)
Rams extend lead to 24-19 with McAllister in at 4 (+2)

4:43, Douglas subs in for Simms (score is 29-22 for a +3 run in 4:09 with Simms at the 4)

Score is 35-24 when Douglas checks out at 2:55 and Simms checks in (+4 for big lineup in 1:48)

Half ends at 39-26 for a +2 for small ball over final 2:55

HALF No. RESULTS
Outscore St. Joe's by 8 in roughly 15 minutes with small ball lineup (+0.5 points per minute)
Outscore St. Joe's by 6 in roughly 5 minutes of double bigs (+1.2 points per minute)

Half No.2
Open with usual starters (Kel at 4, so not two bigs)
Score is 45-31 when we go big at 16:19 for a -1 with small ball over 3:41 of play

Simms checks in at 10:30, score is now 55-40 for a +1 for big ball over 5:49 of play

Use various lineups the final 10:30 of play, none of which are two bigs, finish the game 73-60 for a -2 for small ball over 10:30 of play

HALF No.2 RESULTS

Outscore St. Joe's by 1 in just under 6 minutes of play with two bigs (approx +0.2 points per minute)
Get outscored by St. Joe's by 3 with small ball in just over 14 minutes of play (approx -0.2 points per minute)

OVERALL
+5 with small ball over roughly 29 minutes to outscore Joe's by roughly 0.2 points per minute
+7 playing big in roughly 11 minutes of dub-big action for a 0.6 point per minute advantage

Note: To be fair (because we all know I like the double-bigs lineup) the numbers from the second half are a weird sample because while we were small we stretched the lead to 19 (our largest of the game), only to see it slide back to 13 thanks to a 8-2 Hawks run over the last 1:15 of play. Basically the small ball numbers there got a bit skewed by playing extremely young and loose late, particularly the last minute of the game.