Big East Expansion?

[duncanlamb]

When expansion is mentioned I think of this.

The big east should have "tryouts"

 

[Valley drop step]

I'm sure the Big East would be interested them, but the Big East doesn't offer football, and so it's not a fit.

Hoping Big East goes big with stl, dayton, wichita state, and VCU. What an amazing conference that would be!!!

UCONN has a football program. The school and state made investments. They accepted they were destined to be irrelevant and football fantasies were hurting basketball. They now play independent.

 

[VCU Heel]

I wonder if the Big East is willing to expand outside of its private school profile (UConn is a special case). Public schools with larger alumni bases give you more eyeballs. With how things are shifting, they may panic into a bigger expansion than they would otherwise. With notable programs like Memphis and Temple who are getting destroyed by realignment, would the big east be interested in them if they parked their football teams somewhere, maybe independent? Unless the b12 or ACC throw them a rope, they are done. At some point they will accept that.

While the BE is primarily Catholic and private, the real reason they exist in their current form is because they want non-FBS football schools only. UConn was given an exemption for this because of their history with the BE, their massive basketball success the last few decades, and the fact that it’s clear their football program is going nowhere. Still, UConn is the only school in the conference that they EVER have to worry about losing.

I think that non-FBS football (or no football at all) with good basketball programs will be much more important to them than private/Catholic affiliations. They’ll also look at adding new TV markets, the quality of athletic facilities and how good the non-revenue athletics are as well as the cost of travel for those non-revenue sports. IMO, that makes St. Louis, Wichita St, Dayton, VCU, and maybe Richmond or Davidson the best options.

VCU’s big pluses are:
1. New TV market with a large fan base that travels well.
2. Solid basketball program with a good bit of success over the last 10-15 years.
3. Possibly the strongest overall athletic department of their choices.
4. Building an athletic village that will be P5 competitive.
5. New 17,000 seat arena being built in town that could be used for some games.
6. We really want to be there and would provide stability because we would never leave their conference.
7. VCU would have the highest endowment of any school in the Big East ($170 million more than Georgetown and about 2.5 times as much as the next school).
8. VCU would join Georgetown as the only tier 1 research universities in the conference.

I still don’t think it will ever happen though. I just don’t feel that we’ll be that lucky and I’m certain that many schools in that conference look down on us pretty strongly.

 

[Valley drop step]

While the BE is primarily Catholic and private, the real reason they exist in their current form is because they want non-FBS football schools only. UConn was given an exemption for this because of their history with the BE, their massive basketball success the last few decades, and the fact that it’s clear their football program is going nowhere. Still, UConn is the only school in the conference that they EVER have to worry about losing.

I think that non-FBS football (or no football at all) with good basketball programs will be much more important to them than private/Catholic affiliations. They’ll also look at adding new TV markets, the quality of athletic facilities and how good the non-revenue athletics are as well as the cost of travel for those non-revenue sports. IMO, that makes St. Louis, Wichita St, Dayton, VCU, and maybe Richmond or Davidson the best options.

VCU’s big pluses are:
1. New TV market with a large fan base that travels well.
2. Solid basketball program with a good bit of success over the last 10-15 years.
3. Possibly the strongest overall athletic department of the choices.
4. Building an athletic village that will be P5 competitive.
5. New 17,000 seat arena being built in town that could be used for some games.
6. We really want to be there and would provide stability because we would never leave their conference.
7. VCU would have the highest endowment of any school in the Big East ($170 million more than Georgetown and about 2.5 times as much as the next school).
8. VCU would join Georgetown as the only tier 1 research universities in the conference.

I still don’t think it will ever happen though. I just don’t feel that we’ll be that lucky and I’m certain that many schools in that conference look down on us pretty strongly.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

Also, When new membership is being considered, yes they want a good fit who is committed and shares the same goals. But when expanding they dilute the media deal. Who they bring would need to add enough value so the payout is as much, or hopefully more. The media company who pays the bills would have a lot of input. Large public’s, less a handful of privates, should bring more ratings.

 

[Mercury]

Both VCU and Dayton check all of the boxes and would both likely finish in the top half of the conference most years. Fortunately and unfortunately for us the Big East seems to value their exclusivity.

 

[mrgeode]

It really seems like it comes down to whether Fox says expand or not. If so, they will and will add however many teams Fox wants for their target viewing numbers; if not, they won't. It's just a waiting game for us.

 

[Half-baked Mcbride]

Both VCU and Dayton check all of the boxes and would both likely finish in the top half of the conference most years. Fortunately and unfortunately for us the Big East seems to value their exclusivity.

Agreed, especially on that last part. I don't see the BE happening for VCU for myriad reasons...Between what you said and @VCU Heel said nailed it. We're always gonna be from "the wrong side of the tracks" to the Big East.

VCU's "pros" just aren't gonna move the needle enough while our "cons" are more than enough keep us at arms length.

VCU to the Big East is a pipe dream, in my opinion.

But let's look at the bright side!! The A10 is an ideal fit for both basketball and all our other sports (which is a HUGE consideration that often doesn't come up with fans in Expansion Talk). We got out of the CAA when the gettin was good and our flagship program continues to build on an already solid regional/national reputation all while bringing in those Big Dance "shares"

Only real concern is SLU and/or Dayton getting poached....and their ain't a dang thing we can do about that.

edit: There's also the Dayton/Xavier "thing" as well as the VCU/Georgetown "thing"....just sayin

 

[Havoc City]

UCONN has a football program. The school and state made investments. They accepted they were destined to be irrelevant and football fantasies were hurting basketball. They now play independent.

Yeah, I know UCONN has football, but their program is terrible. If you think Memphis, which is hoping for a B12 invite the next go-around, is going to join the Big East and have their football program go independent, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[DCRAM]

Ok, I have to say something because I see this crap spewed all across the interwebs and regurgitated like it’s fact and I don’t want to see that happen in this group.

Media companies don’t tell conferences who needs to be in their conference or who they want in their conference.

I work in LA for the largest media and entertainment company in the world. We don’t do that and neither does FOX. We pay for what we are offered. If conferences were to say “what if we were to add such and such” to give us more programming options, that’s a different story. We would evaluate the proposal and suggest how much more we’d be willing to pay for the additional programming. THAT’S IT. We don’t tell conferences what to do or who we want, that’s not our business. We aren’t privy to all the inter-workings of conference management otherwise we’d be asking for conference makeups unlike anyone has ever seen.

 

[VCU Heel]

Ok, I have to say something because I see this crap spewed all across the interwebs and regurgitated like it’s fact and I don’t want to see that happen in this group.

Media companies don’t tell conferences who needs to be in their conference or who they want in their conference.

I work in LA for the largest media and entertainment company in the world. We don’t do that and neither does FOX. We pay for what we are offered. If conferences were to say “what if we were to add such and such” to give us more programming options, that’s a different story. We would evaluate the proposal and suggest how much more we’d be willing to pay for the additional programming. THAT’S IT. We don’t tell conferences what to do or who we want, that’s not our business. We aren’t privy to all the inter-workings of conference management otherwise we’d be asking for conference makeups unlike anyone has ever seen.

While I agree, it seems that ESPN has been really driving this particular round of expansion. There’s evidence that they played a big role in making the TX/OU to the SEC move happen. I believe the Big 12 is even suing over it. The feeling is that ESPN is trying to destroy the Big 12 and CUSA because they’re two of the largest conferences that they don’t have deals with right now.

 

[VCU74]

Ok, I have to say something because I see this crap spewed all across the interwebs and regurgitated like it’s fact and I don’t want to see that happen in this group.

Media companies don’t tell conferences who needs to be in their conference or who they want in their conference.

I work in LA for the largest media and entertainment company in the world. We don’t do that and neither does FOX. We pay for what we are offered. If conferences were to say “what if we were to add such and such” to give us more programming options, that’s a different story. We would evaluate the proposal and suggest how much more we’d be willing to pay for the additional programming. THAT’S IT. We don’t tell conferences what to do or who we want, that’s not our business. We aren’t privy to all the inter-workings of conference management otherwise we’d be asking for conference makeups unlike anyone has ever seen.

Man, don’t leave us in suspense like that!
Can we get a “for instance”?

 

[Violet Ram]

Ok, I have to say something because I see this crap spewed all across the interwebs and regurgitated like it’s fact and I don’t want to see that happen in this group.

Media companies don’t tell conferences who needs to be in their conference or who they want in their conference.

I work in LA for the largest media and entertainment company in the world. We don’t do that and neither does FOX. We pay for what we are offered. If conferences were to say “what if we were to add such and such” to give us more programming options, that’s a different story. We would evaluate the proposal and suggest how much more we’d be willing to pay for the additional programming. THAT’S IT. We don’t tell conferences what to do or who we want, that’s not our business. We aren’t privy to all the inter-workings of conference management otherwise we’d be asking for conference makeups unlike anyone has ever seen.

Not to be picky, but I think you mean intra-conference discussions. I think media companies do dictate some inter-conference matchups like exempt tournaments.

People often imbue organizations with more power/influence when it's something they don't understand. This is especially true when you're trying to villainize/blame them.

 

[mrgeode]

Ok, I have to say something because I see this crap spewed all across the interwebs and regurgitated like it’s fact and I don’t want to see that happen in this group.

Media companies don’t tell conferences who needs to be in their conference or who they want in their conference.

I work in LA for the largest media and entertainment company in the world. We don’t do that and neither does FOX. We pay for what we are offered. If conferences were to say “what if we were to add such and such” to give us more programming options, that’s a different story. We would evaluate the proposal and suggest how much more we’d be willing to pay for the additional programming. THAT’S IT. We don’t tell conferences what to do or who we want, that’s not our business. We aren’t privy to all the inter-workings of conference management otherwise we’d be asking for conference makeups unlike anyone has ever seen.

I appreciate an inside perspective. From the outside it doesn't seem like a "How high do you want us to jump?" situation, but the impression is definitely that realignment is driven by money, which flows through media deals, which makes it seem as though media companies have at least some influence in how open conferences are to adding new members. I don't think they dictate policy, but it seems as though if your company or Fox makes it known that a more advantageous deal might be available with different conference members then that puts a different spin on whether expansion might be in the offing. Maybe I should be looking it the other way though - there's always at least two sides in any negotiation.

 

[Ramaholic]

While I agree, it seems that ESPN has been really driving this particular round of expansion. There’s evidence that they played a big role in making the TX/OU to the SEC move happen. I believe the Big 12 is even suing over it. The feeling is that ESPN is trying to destroy the Big 12 and CUSA because they’re two of the largest conferences that they don’t have deals with right now.

ESPN, like the mighty dinosaurs, is having its last roar at the comet as it streaks across the sky, before they become extinct.

 

[Valley drop step]

Yeah, I know UCONN has football, but their program is terrible. If you think Memphis, which is hoping for a B12 invite the next go-around, is going to join the Big East and have their football program go independent, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I was thinking Temple being more likely. But I think Temple to the a10 is more likely in the coming years. Temple’s only realistic opportunity would be for the big10 the invite UVA UNC etc, then get included in the ACC backfill