News Breaking: NCAA to grant additional year to some, discussing more

WI.Ram10

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Aug 4, 2017
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Also the whole concept is crazy crazy. Some teams were legitimately done with all their games. Would all those team’s players get another year? It’d be a cool gesture but I don’t see how it would work for winter sports. Realistically l, vcu could have been 1-2 games away from being completely done
 
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Sethjax

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Jan 22, 2010
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Fun to talk about with the chaos that is upon us and with the way it all has ended..just gotta see how it all plays out. Scientific and medical community is preparing for a 12-18 month COVID run here so we might be staring at a new reality that is hard to wrap our heads around right now.
 
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Ululating Daddy

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Jan 13, 2016
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I really feel for these seniors. Whether they had a likely chance to go a long way into the NCAA tourney (Dayton) or one last chance to redeem a disappointing season (VCU), that chance is now lost by no fault of their own. But there is simply no way to set that right that is fair to everyone. In a head count sport like basketball, where every scholarship must be a full ride slot, every scholarship given to one player takes one away from another. We have 5 seniors, Dayton has 2 - What is the fair way to add more scholarships for next year? We get 18 and Dayton gets 15? We both get the same, and either 3 VCU seniors don't really get the opportunity, or Dayton gets 3 more freshman slots?

Other than Women's Tennis, all the spring sports are Equivalency sports, where the schools have fewer total scholarships but have the flexibility to split them up as they choose. So maybe two freshman baseball players who were going to get a half-scholarship now get a 1/3, so a senior staying an extra year can also get 1/3. The NCAA is apparently still trying to decide the details, so how many extra scholarships are available is still up in the air. Still not perfectly fair, but the relative inequities are smaller, because of all the flexibility already there.

And I do think that losing an entire season, as the spring athletes have lost, deserves more consideration than losing the post-season, where only that first conference tourney game was guaranteed. What about basketball teams who already played and lost that first game? Do they get nothing, because they haven't lost any opportunity? Is it fair that they have to compete against older, more experienced teams with deeper benches next year?

So it sucks, no question. It's not fair. But I think the remedies for winter sports create just as much inequity, if not more. It's just distributed differently. I think the least unfair thing to do is grudgingly accept the season is over, thank our seniors for all their hard work, and move forward.
 

SWV

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Jan 10, 2016
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I really feel for these seniors. Whether they had a likely chance to go a long way into the NCAA tourney (Dayton) or one last chance to redeem a disappointing season (VCU), that chance is now lost by no fault of their own. But there is simply no way to set that right that is fair to everyone. In a head count sport like basketball, where every scholarship must be a full ride slot, every scholarship given to one player takes one away from another. We have 5 seniors, Dayton has 2 - What is the fair way to add more scholarships for next year? We get 18 and Dayton gets 15? We both get the same, and either 3 VCU seniors don't really get the opportunity, or Dayton gets 3 more freshman slots?

Other than Women's Tennis, all the spring sports are Equivalency sports, where the schools have fewer total scholarships but have the flexibility to split them up as they choose. So maybe two freshman baseball players who were going to get a half-scholarship now get a 1/3, so a senior staying an extra year can also get 1/3. The NCAA is apparently still trying to decide the details, so how many extra scholarships are available is still up in the air. Still not perfectly fair, but the relative inequities are smaller, because of all the flexibility already there.

And I do think that losing an entire season, as the spring athletes have lost, deserves more consideration than losing the post-season, where only that first conference tourney game was guaranteed. What about basketball teams who already played and lost that first game? Do they get nothing, because they haven't lost any opportunity? Is it fair that they have to compete against older, more experienced teams with deeper benches next year?

So it sucks, no question. It's not fair. But I think the remedies for winter sports create just as much inequity, if not more. It's just distributed differently. I think the least unfair thing to do is grudgingly accept the season is over, thank our seniors for all their hard work, and move forward.
I agree with you. I would say most basketball teams completed 90-100% of their seasons. I don’t understand what all the fuss is about for “fairness” for seniors. The tournaments getting canceled is a hard pill to swallow. Trying to create ”fairness“ for seniors creates “unfairness” for other players. Where would it end?
 
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I agree with you. I would say most basketball teams completed 90-100% of their seasons. I don’t understand what all the fuss is about for “fairness” for seniors. The tournaments getting canceled is a hard pill to swallow. Trying to create ”fairness“ for seniors creates “unfairness” for other players. Where would it end?
Yeah, 80-90% of seniors had 0-3 games left in their career. A very small fraction were going to play more than 4 games.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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Apr 21, 2009
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Umm, the same problem is true with spring sports, and as the PR said, they're going to change the scholarship allotment. This would be a windfall for teams like VCU where there were a lot of seniors if the seniors decided to return. We would get 18 scholarships for next year.
All of the spring sports teams have limited scholarships. As an example, baseball gets 11.7 scholarships for a 25 person team. Because all spring sports teams have limited scholarships, there is a lot more flexibility in providing an additional year of eligibility than it would be for basketball where every player is on a full ride.

And then there is the issue of where does the additional scholarship money come from, especially for basketball where the players are on a full ride. VCU would have to fund up to an additional 5 full scholarships just for basketball. That's not going to happen.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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1) scholarships are extremely inexpensive to schools. Once you decide to compete in a sport, there's an economy of scale. We're talking about, even with 5 seniors, a cost exposure of probably 80k (room, board and education at-cost).

2) Schools and players would be given the option to decide to proceed for another. Even if we assumed that the cost of having 5 extra players was too much, a school isn't required to renew a scholarship.

3) Going off the previous, it's up to the coaching staff to determine the structure of their team. If they feel it's necessary to cut seniors to keep their freshman happy, so be it.

4) Where are Freshman going to go, even if they were going to be released from their commitment. Every team would have the option of extending another year of scholarships to theirs seniors.
1) There are also more expenses than just the scholarship. There is also an increase basketball related expenses due to expanding a roster by 39% (5 seniors).

4) If you think freshmen aren't going to explore their options once they find out up to 5 seniors are returning, expanding the team to 18 players, then you are fooling your self. In addition, the way the language reads, ALL players get another year of eligibility. That totally changes depth charts for every team out there - good and bad.
 

Violet Ram

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Jan 29, 2015
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All of the spring sports teams have limited scholarships. As an example, baseball gets 11.7 scholarships for a 25 person team. Because all spring sports teams have limited scholarships, there is a lot more flexibility in providing an additional year of eligibility than it would be for basketball where every player is on a full ride.
I'm not following your logic here at all. Let's just simplify (for this part) and assume that baseball had 5 seniors who know have an extra year of eligibility and wanted to return. Run me through the 'extra' flexibility.

And then there is the issue of where does the additional scholarship money come from, especially for basketball where the players are on a full ride. VCU would have to fund up to an additional 5 full scholarships just for basketball. That's not going to happen.
So VCU was probably on the high-end with 5 seniors. How much do you think it would cost the school to give 1 extra year worth of scholarships, room and board to 5 people? I estimated 80k earlier, but that strikes me as on the high end.
 

Violet Ram

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1) There are also more expenses than just the scholarship. There is also an increase basketball related expenses due to expanding a roster by 39% (5 seniors).
An extra body on a chartered bus or plan doesn't increase the total budget proportionally. The MC of an extra scholarship is low.
4) If you think freshmen aren't going to explore their options once they find out up to 5 seniors are returning, expanding the team to 18 players, then you are fooling your self. In addition, the way the language reads, ALL players get another year of eligibility. That totally changes depth charts for every team out there - good and bad.
The point is that players everywhere have the option to play another year. Some may not take up the offer, others may decide to GT. The point is that if there is a time crunch, it'll be systemic across college basketball. Also, VCU does a better job of finding minutes for more players. Take UR for example. Only 5 or 6 kids a year consumer those extra minutes. Freshman are unlikely to get minutes whether there's 13 or 18 players on the roster.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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I'm not following your logic here at all. Let's just simplify (for this part) and assume that baseball had 5 seniors who know have an extra year of eligibility and wanted to return. Run me through the 'extra' flexibility.



So VCU was probably on the high-end with 5 seniors. How much do you think it would cost the school to give 1 extra year worth of scholarships, room and board to 5 people? I estimated 80k earlier, but that strikes me as on the high end.
Regarding baseball, you're not talking 5 full scholarships for those 5 seniors. They could be each receiving 10% of a full scholarship, or no scholarship at all if they come back. Each school has to divide up the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships among 25 players. Some freshmen may not even be on scholarship. Kids understand the scholarship math for sports like baseball. Another year of eligibility could mean being eligible to play again next year, but with no scholarship.

FYI - you might have 2-3 players on a baseball team that get a full ride, unless the school has a separate endowment fund to increase scholarship funding for that particular team.

Regarding basketball, you are giving the entire team an extra year of eligibility, not just the seniors. That's a significant cost when every player is on a full ride.
 

Violet Ram

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Regarding baseball, you're not talking 5 full scholarships for those 5 seniors. They could be each receiving 10% of a full scholarship, or no scholarship at all if they come back. Each school has to divide up the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships among 25 players. Some freshmen may not even be on scholarship. Kids understand the scholarship math for sports like baseball. Another year of eligibility could mean being eligible to play again next year, but with no scholarship.

FYI - you might have 2-3 players on a baseball team that get a full ride, unless the school has a separate endowment fund to increase scholarship funding for that particular team.

Regarding basketball, you are giving the entire team an extra year of eligibility, not just the seniors. That's a significant cost when every player is on a full ride.
So there is no extra flexibility. You’re just saying that a school would be willing to sit on scholarships because they think they can without losing players.

Seriously, please price it out for me roughly how much an extra year of eligibility would cost. I’ve already ballparkrdnit and explained why I think it’s minimal. Just shouting out the quantity of scholarships isn’t really helpful, particularly since the school can decide not to extend scholarships if it’s too costly.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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An extra body on a chartered bus or plan doesn't increase the total budget proportionally. The MC of an extra scholarship is low.


The point is that players everywhere have the option to play another year. Some may not take up the offer, others may decide to GT. The point is that if there is a time crunch, it'll be systemic across college basketball. Also, VCU does a better job of finding minutes for more players. Take UR for example. Only 5 or 6 kids a year consumer those extra minutes. Freshman are unlikely to get minutes whether there's 13 or 18 players on the roster.
4 of VCU's seniors are in the top 6 regarding team minutes all averaging 23+ mpg. And Crowfield averaged 16 MPG. And that's factoring injuries to Evans and Jenkins. What are you going to do? Red shirt every incoming freshman because there won't be enough minutes to go around? Go ahead and tell most of VCU's incoming freshmen that they are going to have to red shirt next year because the NCAA let all of the seniors come back next year.
 
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Violet Ram

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4 of VCU's seniors are in the top 6 regarding team minutes all averaging 23+ mpg. And Crowfield averaged 16 MPG. And that's factoring injuries to Evans and Jenkins. What are you going to do? Red shirt every incoming freshman because there won't be enough minutes to go around? Go ahead and tell most of VCU's incoming freshmen that they are going to have to red shirt next year because the NCAA let all of the seniors come back next year.
So you’re assuming that Staff would extend a scholarship to each senior and each senior would accept? I think that’s far fetched, especially if we carried this through the entirety of sports.

But alas, assuming no one left college basketball throughout the NCAA, I’m not sure where the incoming freshman would seek refuge to.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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So you’re assuming that Staff would extend a scholarship to each senior and each senior would accept? I think that’s far fetched, especially if we carried this through the entirety of sports.

But alas, assuming no one left college basketball throughout the NCAA, I’m not sure where the incoming freshman would seek refuge to.
When planning, you have to assume everyone will take advantage of the opportunity. None of VCU's seniors are preparing to the NBA draft.

And when you do your math regarding scholarships, not every player is an in-state player. The cost of attendance for out-of-state players is much higher. 3 out of 5 of VCU's seniors are out-of-state. The cost is not "minimal" as you suggest.