For Funsies: Conference Reallignment/Creation

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personally, I wish NCAA would change rules for # of sports that schools must offer to play at D1 level and a10 would drop its requirements too
NCAA forces majority of colleges and universities to Lose money operating non revenue sports (VCU loses $28 million a year to operate athletics, with MBB the only one breaking even or possibly making a little money annually )
Majority of student body doesn't really care about athletics at college and university (major P5 football is only sport students like to attend for parties)
as long as you comply with Title IX let schools decide how many sports they choose to have - Stop the Insanity!!!
 

PRock

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personally, I wish NCAA would change rules for # of sports that schools must offer to play at D1 level and a10 would drop its requirements too
NCAA forces majority of colleges and universities to Lose money operating non revenue sports (VCU loses $28 million a year to operate athletics, with MBB the only one breaking even or possibly making a little money annually )
Majority of student body doesn't really care about athletics at college and university (major P5 football is only sport students like to attend for parties)
as long as you comply with Title IX let schools decide how many sports they choose to have - Stop the Insanity!!!
The athletic department brought in $14MM in non-student fee revenue including contributions in FY19, $5.45MM came from non-basketball sports…..so much for the non-revenue producing theory. Student Fees for athletics were $21MM—following your logic, might as well just close the whole shop up—of course there are a whole host of broader benefits to the university that come from a high visibility and comprehensive athletic department, including but not limited to: brand development, community relations, academic programs (sports medicine), student recruiting, student life, alumni giving, etc….., but I’m guessing you really didn’t think about the big picture or research the facts.

 

Ramdog

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personally, I wish NCAA would change rules for # of sports that schools must offer to play at D1 level and a10 would drop its requirements too
NCAA forces majority of colleges and universities to Lose money operating non revenue sports (VCU loses $28 million a year to operate athletics, with MBB the only one breaking even or possibly making a little money annually )
Majority of student body doesn't really care about athletics at college and university (major P5 football is only sport students like to attend for parties)
as long as you comply with Title IX let schools decide how many sports they choose to have - Stop the Insanity!!!
Get rid of the math department as well...they didn’t make squat
 

BigE

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Last year's results: VCU won 6 championships (4 women, 2 men), Rhode Island won 2, nine schools took home 1, and 3 schools (GMU, LaSalle, & St Joe) didn't win a single conference title.

Mason used to be very good in T&F; wonder what happened?
 
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The athletic department brought in $14MM in non-student fee revenue including contributions in FY19, $5.45MM came from non-basketball sports…..so much for the non-revenue producing theory. Student Fees for athletics were $21MM—following your logic, might as well just close the whole shop up—of course there are a whole host of broader benefits to the university that come from a high visibility and comprehensive athletic department, including but not limited to: brand development, community relations, academic programs (sports medicine), student recruiting, student life, alumni giving, etc….., but I’m guessing you really didn’t think about the big picture or research the facts.

The athletic department brought in $14MM in non-student fee revenue including contributions in FY19, $5.45MM came from non-basketball sports…..so much for the non-revenue producing theory. Student Fees for athletics were $21MM—following your logic, might as well just close the whole shop up—of course there are a whole host of broader benefits to the university that come from a high visibility and comprehensive athletic department, including but not limited to: brand development, community relations, academic programs (sports medicine), student recruiting, student life, alumni giving, etc….., but I’m guessing you really didn’t think about the big picture or research the facts.

I do know the facts (but I did quote an incorrect subsidy amount which was $22 million in 2019 and not $28 million) the facts are printed annually in the APA Report on Athletics (APA is the Commonwealth of VA Auditor of Public Accounts - or more commonly understood as VCU's outside auditor )
Athletic Dept revenue in 2019 was $35.78 million
Student fees and direct and institutional support accounted for $21.9 million of it (basically the subsidy to breakeven or Loss
VCU MBB is shown as generating $9 million
But then there are other large revenues not allocated to MBB but are generated primarily if not solely from MBB (for example)
$1.5 million was from conference distributions (non media or bowl) -
$430k from NCAA distributions
$409k from program, novelty, concessions and parking
$871k from other operating revenue
(could VCU actually show and allocate those revenues partially or solely to VCU MBB - yes it could but it chooses not to - why? maybe that is question you should ask our AD !

per financial statements all other sports other than MBB generate revenue of $250k

our Athletic Program beyond MBB is not high visibiity (though VCU teams are the most successful in the A10 year in and year out) -
the benefits you cite as related to Athletics are kind of squishy to measure like student life, student recruiting, alumni giving but there is some correlation I will agree
(you did fail to mention the greatest success out of Athletics in the VCU sports center program growing out of Dr Sander's work)

my original comment said the NCAA and A10 should not require institutions to maintain a minimun # of sports to participate in our conference or D1 - let institutions decide - schools like La Salle and others in a10 bleed red bottom lines because they have to operate sports that they really cannot afford to do so and some make decisions not to give scholarships in many sports too

now my opinion for VCU is we should have 8 sports (mens and women soccer, mens and women basketball, baseball and softball, mens and women tennis) - provides equal opportunities to genders and focuses limited dollars on programs that can succeed and compete nationally

go rams
 

PRock

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I do know the facts (but I did quote an incorrect subsidy amount which was $22 million in 2019 and not $28 million) the facts are printed annually in the APA Report on Athletics (APA is the Commonwealth of VA Auditor of Public Accounts - or more commonly understood as VCU's outside auditor )
Athletic Dept revenue in 2019 was $35.78 million
Student fees and direct and institutional support accounted for $21.9 million of it (basically the subsidy to breakeven or Loss
VCU MBB is shown as generating $9 million
But then there are other large revenues not allocated to MBB but are generated primarily if not solely from MBB (for example)
$1.5 million was from conference distributions (non media or bowl) -
$430k from NCAA distributions
$409k from program, novelty, concessions and parking
$871k from other operating revenue
(could VCU actually show and allocate those revenues partially or solely to VCU MBB - yes it could but it chooses not to - why? maybe that is question you should ask our AD !

per financial statements all other sports other than MBB generate revenue of $250k

our Athletic Program beyond MBB is not high visibiity (though VCU teams are the most successful in the A10 year in and year out) -
the benefits you cite as related to Athletics are kind of squishy to measure like student life, student recruiting, alumni giving but there is some correlation I will agree
(you did fail to mention the greatest success out of Athletics in the VCU sports center program growing out of Dr Sander's work)

my original comment said the NCAA and A10 should not require institutions to maintain a minimun # of sports to participate in our conference or D1 - let institutions decide - schools like La Salle and others in a10 bleed red bottom lines because they have to operate sports that they really cannot afford to do so and some make decisions not to give scholarships in many sports too

now my opinion for VCU is we should have 8 sports (mens and women soccer, mens and women basketball, baseball and softball, mens and women tennis) - provides equal opportunities to genders and focuses limited dollars on programs that can succeed and compete nationally

go rams
Appreciate your response, comfortable with the numbers quoted in the article cited with Ed’s participation. I notice your opening stance against the non-basketball sports has softened- i believe you incorrectly referred to them as non-revenue.…i assume the irony is that you are an accountant and understand the difference, but choose to ignore it.

darn right I am sensitive—always love the coackroaches that attack sports not called basketball—great talking point…..but so myopic, but you be you.
 

VCU Heel

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Appreciate your response, comfortable with the numbers quoted in the article cited with Ed’s participation. I notice your opening stance against the non-basketball sports has softened- i believe you incorrectly referred to them as non-revenue.…i assume the irony is that you are an accountant and understand the difference, but choose to ignore it.

darn right I am sensitive—always love the coackroaches that attack sports not called basketball—great talking point…..but so myopic, but you be you.
Non-revenue is just the common description used for sports other than football and men’s basketball. It might not be the best description, it’s just the nomenclature that‘s used.

I do very much disagree with him on cutting those sports. Universities have other missions outside of maximum revenues (or at least they should).
 
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Appreciate your response, comfortable with the numbers quoted in the article cited with Ed’s participation. I notice your opening stance against the non-basketball sports has softened- i believe you incorrectly referred to them as non-revenue.…i assume the irony is that you are an accountant and understand the difference, but choose to ignore it.

darn right I am sensitive—always love the coackroaches that attack sports not called basketball—great talking point…..but so myopic, but you be you.
You can can create quite an illusion with your accounting. If your submitting reports to the President and Board, they are going to do their best not to flag a particular sport. If a team has 20 scholarships, coaches, equipment, facilities, travel expenses etc. There is no way that program is profitable. If a donation was directed to particular sports vs the athletics in general, those sports would receive very very little. Almost all, if not all VCU teams other than men’s BB are non revenue sports.
 
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Appreciate your response, comfortable with the numbers quoted in the article cited with Ed’s participation. I notice your opening stance against the non-basketball sports has softened- i believe you incorrectly referred to them as non-revenue.…i assume the irony is that you are an accountant and understand the difference, but choose to ignore it.

darn right I am sensitive—always love the coackroaches that attack sports not called basketball—great talking point…..but so myopic, but you be you.
no need to be sensitive - we all have opinions - I tend to think mine are pretty informed, obviously you don't or maybe you simply disagree

non revenue is the nomenclature most often associated with all sports in college that are not Football or Basketball , (you know that too!)

you have to admit that $250,000 of direct revenue out of $38 million of revenue for 2019 for the VCU sports not called VCU Men's basketball would cause any business to raise questions about does it make sense to continue - In College sports you are FORCED to continue these sports as a condition of participation in the NCAA and for VCU in the A10

help me understand your thoughts on the benefits of VCU Golf program to VCU beyond giving 8 students the opportunity to improve their golf skills and maybe continue at the next level/s and make a living (or VCU Cross County if you know that sport better)
( VCU started golf to meet NCAA requirements and offered no scholarships and had volunteer coach and no golf course - had to beg local golf courses for tee times and yes I know our players that have played next level at PGA- ) ( as a side note I have probably attended about two hundred of VCU games/meets/matches not called MBB or WBB over the past 40 years - though never made it to a cross country meet would be the only sport I have not witnessed in person

would you mind sending me a link to the article you cite (with Ed's participation), curious about what is said

below is the link to the State audit report (page 8 is the one with revenue numbers)


Go Rams
 

PRock

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no need to be sensitive - we all have opinions - I tend to think mine are pretty informed, obviously you don't or maybe you simply disagree

non revenue is the nomenclature most often associated with all sports in college that are not Football or Basketball , (you know that too!)

you have to admit that $250,000 of direct revenue out of $38 million of revenue for 2019 for the VCU sports not called VCU Men's basketball would cause any business to raise questions about does it make sense to continue - In College sports you are FORCED to continue these sports as a condition of participation in the NCAA and for VCU in the A10

help me understand your thoughts on the benefits of VCU Golf program to VCU beyond giving 8 students the opportunity to improve their golf skills and maybe continue at the next level/s and make a living (or VCU Cross County if you know that sport better)
( VCU started golf to meet NCAA requirements and offered no scholarships and had volunteer coach and no golf course - had to beg local golf courses for tee times and yes I know our players that have played next level at PGA- ) ( as a side note I have probably attended about two hundred of VCU games/meets/matches not called MBB or WBB over the past 40 years - though never made it to a cross country meet would be the only sport I have not witnessed in person

would you mind sending me a link to the article you cite (with Ed's participation), curious about what is said

below is the link to the State audit report (page 8 is the one with revenue numbers)


Go Rams
 

PRock

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You can can create quite an illusion with your accounting. If your submitting reports to the President and Board, they are going to do their best not to flag a particular sport. If a team has 20 scholarships, coaches, equipment, facilities, travel expenses etc. There is no way that program is profitable. If a donation was directed to particular sports vs the athletics in general, those sports would receive very very little. Almost all, if not all VCU teams other than men’s BB are non revenue sports.
I know i am tilting at windmills on this, as both you and heel have pointed out non-revenue is refering to not profitable (or whatever the right academic term is). That said, several of the sports charge admission, get direct alumni donation support and have marketing dollars coming in—so that’s revenue. Do they cover their direct costs? most probably don’t, but neither does basketball—so is that non-revenue?

My big point is that our athletic program as a whole contributes a lot to the univeristy profile and community—some of that is direct and measurable, other aspects are more squishy. It is personal to me—but i can say with certainty the university and AD has made a lot more from me as an alumni than they gave me as an SA—in terms of direct $$.

It‘s a relevant healthy debate, my take is it money well spent—but I understand the alternative POV.
 
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PhantomRam

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Just a random thought (keep in mind, I am 6 days into my 10 day covid quarantine, so I am bored as heck), but I have always wondered why VCU has never taken the step to have softball. This area is a hotbed of softball talent, I am sure VCU could build a successful woman's program around it.

OK, back to regular scheduled programing.
 

PRock

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Just a random thought (keep in mind, I am 6 days into my 10 day covid quarantine, so I am bored as heck), but I have always wondered why VCU has never taken the step to have softball. This area is a hotbed of softball talent, I am sure VCU could build a successful woman's program around it.

OK, back to regular scheduled programing.
They had a softball team in the 80’s—not sure why is was disbanded, but they also did away with the Men’s Swim team around the same time, so assuming it was budget related.

Hope you are doing ok health wise, beyond the boredom.
 
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