For Funsies: Conference Reallignment/Creation

Feb 16, 2017
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For a 30,000+ student public school without a football program or a religious affiliation, we are actually quite fortunate to be in the A-10.

1) A-10 has turned out to be our NCAA-qualifying "sweet spot" - just easy enough to garner 20+ wins nearly every season and be at or near the top of the conference and just tough enough to supply the necessary rigor and metrics (NET, KP, Top 100 wins, etc) to garner (qualify for) an at-large bid almost annually. That's where you want to be. I'm quite sure this (at-large bids and the associated prestige/revenue/scheduling/national press/recruiting advantages) is what UR envisioned when they made the jump to the A-10.

2) A-10 provides a favorable geography - driving distance (i.e. crowd support/enthusiasm) to many rival games -- UR, GMU, GW, Davidson, even Dayton -- and the conference tourney.

3) A-10 provides a favorable NCAA units payout structure - keep 75% of annual unit revenue earned

Ultimately, for most schools, especially those without big-time football, making the NCAA tourney in men's hoop is the big prize/goal each year.

Dayton, St Louis, Richmond, Rhody, and St Bonny are not as sexy as AAC members Cincy, Memphis, Houston, Wichita, Temple, this is true. However, the ultimate prize occurs on Selection Sunday each year and the A-10 has delivered (to us at least) beyond our wildest dreams (9 NCAA selections in the past 10 NCAA tourneys held).

Sometimes in life you need to know who you are, stay in your lane, carve out your own (successful if not glamorous) path. and stick with what works. The A-10 has been a home run thus far for VCU athletics (and all who follow/support it).
We're are marquee program in the conference that earned our membership based on the fact that we outgrew the CAA and were and still are on a signifcant national trajectory. Do we need to accomplish more to ensure we are still on the trajectory? Yes, no question. For starters, we need to increase our batting average in the OOC tournaments big time. But I do not believe we should consider ourselves "fortunate" to be in the A-10 in the sense that we out of our league.
 

BradRamFan

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May 1, 2009
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But my dream scenario would be:

East Division:
Connecticut
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John’s
Villanova
Georgetown
VCU

West Division:
Creighton
St. Louis
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier
Dayton

And I emphasize “dream” because it’s never going to happen. That‘s a 7-8+ bid league that would have a massive TV deal.

There could be either a 19 game schedule (2 against each team in your division + 1 against each team in the other division) or a 20 game schedule that would be easier for scheduling where you would add a 2nd game against one team from the other division that could be a the same rival team every year. I’d match VCU and Dayton in that scenario.

A sample Stu home conference schedule might look something like Connecticut, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John’s, Villanova, Georgetown, Dayton, Creighton, Marquette, Butler. Then the next year would be Connecticut, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John’s, Villanova, Georgetown, Dayton, St. Louis, DePaul, Xavier.
I like this dream list....with the exception of St. Louis. I'm still not convince they are any good. And outside of this past year....again, questionable in my mind.....they haven't been good for almost a decade.
 
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VCU Heel

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Aug 7, 2012
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For a 30,000+ student public school without a football program or a religious affiliation, we are actually quite fortunate to be in the A-10.

1) A-10 has turned out to be our NCAA-qualifying "sweet spot" - just easy enough to garner 20+ wins nearly every season and be at or near the top of the conference and just tough enough to supply the necessary rigor and metrics (NET, KP, Top 100 wins, etc) to garner (qualify for) an at-large bid almost annually. That's where you want to be. I'm quite sure this (at-large bids and the associated prestige/revenue/scheduling/national press/recruiting advantages) is what UR envisioned when they made the jump to the A-10.

2) A-10 provides a favorable geography - driving distance (i.e. crowd support/enthusiasm) to many rival games -- UR, GMU, GW, Davidson, even Dayton -- and the conference tourney.

3) A-10 provides a favorable NCAA units payout structure - keep 75% of annual unit revenue earned

Ultimately, for most schools, especially those without big-time football, making the NCAA tourney in men's hoop is the big prize/goal each year.

Dayton, St Louis, Richmond, Rhody, and St Bonny are not as sexy as AAC members Cincy, Memphis, Houston, Wichita, Temple, this is true. However, the ultimate prize occurs on Selection Sunday each year and the A-10 has delivered (to us at least) beyond our wildest dreams (9 NCAA selections in the past 10 NCAA tourneys held).

Sometimes in life you need to know who you are, stay in your lane, carve out your own (successful if not glamorous) path. and stick with what works. The A-10 has been a home run thus far for VCU athletics (and all who follow/support it).
The only problem with that logic is that the A-10 would become a one bid league if one or two of those other schools left. If Dayton and/or St. Louis were to leave, then the A-10 isn’t a whole lot better than the CAA that we left. That possibility always has to be taken into account if an offer were to come from a conference like the AAC. And schools like Dayton and St. Louis have to be thinking the same thing about what would happen if we left. It’s essentially a big game of chicken.
 

VCU Heel

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Aug 7, 2012
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I like this dream list....with the exception of St. Louis. I'm still not convince they are any good. And outside of this past year....again, questionable in my mind.....they haven't been good for almost a decade.
St. Louis has the facilities and other things that make them a fit... like bringing in the Missouri TV markets. They’re also a Catholic university, which makes them appealing to the Big East. And in my scenario, there needs to be a 14th team to go with VCU/Dayton and it would be best for it to be a school that fits in with the west division.
 

mrgeode

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St. Louis has the facilities and other things that make them a fit... like bringing in the Missouri TV markets. They’re also a Catholic university, which makes them appealing to the Big East. And in my scenario, there needs to be a 14th team to go with VCU/Dayton and it would be best for it to be a school that fits in with the west division.
Does SLU appreciably bring in the St Louis metro TV market? I'm not saying it's like Fordham bringing in the NYC market, but I do think it's more a difference of degree and not kind.
 

VCU Heel

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Does SLU appreciably bring in the St Louis metro TV market? I'm not saying it's like Fordham bringing in the NYC market, but I do think it's more a difference of degree and not kind.
They being in the Missouri TV market just as much as VCU brings in the Virginia TV market.
 
Feb 8, 2010
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If Dayton and/or St. Louis were to leave, then the A-10 isn’t a whole lot better than the CAA that we left. That possibility always has to be taken into account if an offer were to come from a conference like the AAC
And the probability of Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis leaving the American has to be taken into account as well. Football drives the bus, and the promise of BCS windfalls will more than outweigh anything the American could offer in either football or basketball. I still haven't seen any acknowledgement of this very real possibility (and some would say probability, as media deals expire, the CFB Playoff gets reworked, and conferences like the ACC and Big 12 weigh the benefits of expansion).

I think that situation is far more likely than SLU and Dayton suddenly deciding they want to join a football-first conference.
 
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Ramlove81

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And the probability of Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis leaving the American has to be taken into account as well. Football drives the bus, and the promise of BCS windfalls will more than outweigh anything the American could offer in either football or basketball. I still haven't seen any acknowledgement of this very real possibility (and some would say probability, as media deals expire, the CFB Playoff gets reworked, and conferences like the ACC and Big 12 weigh the benefits of expansion).

I think that situation is far more likely than SLU and Dayton suddenly deciding they want to join a football-first conference.
Are either Dayton or SLU seeking to upgrade in football. I haven't been in the area for a while now, but Dayton was very content with their no scholarship team when I was there. And I did not even realize SLU had football.
 
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VCU Heel

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And the probability of Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis leaving the American has to be taken into account as well. Football drives the bus, and the promise of BCS windfalls will more than outweigh anything the American could offer in either football or basketball. I still haven't seen any acknowledgement of this very real possibility (and some would say probability, as media deals expire, the CFB Playoff gets reworked, and conferences like the ACC and Big 12 weigh the benefits of expansion).

I think that situation is far more likely than SLU and Dayton suddenly deciding they want to join a football-first conference.
The Big 12 is the only conference that might be looking to expand and would even consider any of those schools. It’s a toss up between the Big East taking Dayton/St. Louis versus the Big 12 taking Houston (they already own the Texas market) or Memphis/Cincy.

We need to be ready to pull the trigger either at the same time as Dayton/SLU or before them. If they pull the trigger before us, then our program is dead. We won’t get another chance if we get left behind again.
 

mrgeode

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The Big 12 is the only conference that might be looking to expand and would even consider any of those schools. It’s a toss up between the Big East taking Dayton/St. Louis versus the Big 12 taking Houston (they already own the Texas market) or Memphis/Cincy.

We need to be ready to pull the trigger either at the same time as Dayton/SLU or before them. If they pull the trigger before us, then our program is dead. We won’t get another chance if we get left behind again.
The Big East will never take Dayton while Xavier is a member.
 
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Feb 8, 2010
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If they pull the trigger before us, then our program is dead. We won’t get another chance if we get left behind again.
Pump the brakes.

Dayton isn't going to dictate our future as a program, and Saint Louis certainly isn't. We were fine before the A10, and if it comes to it, we'll be fine after it as well. The Big East isn't going to expand beyond 11 in the short term - they've said repeatedly they like the conference footprint as is and being able to do a double round-robin for conference scheduling - and they don't have to worry about P5 football forcing their hand.

If Dayton and SLU want to play roulette with joining a football-first conference with a nonsensical geographic profile and much higher travel costs, then they can go ahead and do so, hoping and praying that P5 football realignment doesn't leave them in a situation where Wichita State is left to prop up the conference.