For Funsies: Conference Reallignment/Creation

[Mercury]

Not sure why Memphis is a flight risk but Temple isn't, but I digress.

Because if the Big 12 adds more teams Memphis is next on the list. Nobody is calling Temple to bring their football team into their conference.

 

[YouveBeenRammed]

So... The Big East made a clear statement with welcoming UConn back, in that the private/catholic affiliation is less important than your ability to sustain success as a basketball program.

With that being said, I am finding it tough to find cons to inviting Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, and Wichita State now. All invites strengthen the conference. You could throw Memphis into that group to make it and even 16, but their football aspirations, and potential further Big 12 expansion add some uncomfortable dynamics.

The Big East enjoys all the leverage in the world, and obviously, they do not need to make a move if they wish not to. However, they possess the ability to be proactive, and this solution would certainly strengthen the conference across the board and offer further stability to perhaps the most stable conference.

 

[Violet Ram]

Because if the Big 12 adds more teams Memphis is next on the list. Nobody is calling Temple to bring their football team into their conference.

Sure, but Temple is also pretty far back in the list of teams that would fold up their football team, so I'm not seeing them giving up on major football for the Big East.

 

[Ram20ROB]

So... The Big East made a clear statement with welcoming UConn back, in that the private/catholic affiliation is less important than your ability to sustain success as a basketball program.

With that being said, I am finding it tough to find cons to inviting Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, and Wichita State now. All invites strengthen the conference. You could throw Memphis into that group to make it and even 16, but their football aspirations, and potential further Big 12 expansion add some uncomfortable dynamics.

The Big East enjoys all the leverage in the world, and obviously, they do not need to make a move if they wish not to. However, they possess the ability to be proactive, and this solution would certainly strengthen the conference across the board and offer further stability to perhaps the most stable conference.

The major con - and the one that has driven conference realignment & football playoffs for at least the last 10 years - is money. The Big East has NO interest in splitting its TV and other revenues another 4 ways. Until the TV networks tell them the total package will increase and everyone makes more money, the Big East will stand pat. That doesn't even get to the presidential considerations that are also a major factor.

 

[Half-baked Mcbride]

Just for fun I looked into Temple's Football financials....hard to find a ton of info, but it looks like they spend roughly 24 million and make roughly 24 million.....that seems dubious to me, I'm guessing they're cooking the books in a way that makes it look like they are NOT hemorrhaging money for a sport that they are historically awful at. Seems like 121 players are involved in D1 football....that's a LOT of schollies and whatnot, just sayin'

Temple University Athletics Programs

What sports are offered at Temple University? Learn how each athletic ranks, how much revenue it brings in, the average sports aid per student athlete at Temple, and more.

www.collegefactual.com

I did find some info on how football costs are killing off other sports at Temple....that's always a morbidly fascinating read

Temple cuts highlight cost of big-time football

While Temple attributes the decision to cut seven teams to other issues, it is one of many universities that have cut Olympic sports while upping spending on football.

www.insidehighered.com

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2013/12/10/experts-temple-cut-sports-because.html

In Temple's football defense? They did have a nice little run of AAC relevance (whatever THAT is worth) in 2015/2016 AND they played in the Union Home Mortgage Gasparilla Bowl in 2017

When I do think of Non Top 10/Non SEC teams in college football....which is rare....I just picture this

aaaaaaaaaaand this

 

[WestEndEd]

The major con - and the one that has driven conference realignment & football playoffs for at least the last 10 years - is money. The Big East has NO interest in splitting its TV and other revenues another 4 ways. Until the TV networks tell them the total package will increase and everyone makes more money, the Big East will stand pat. That doesn't even get to the presidential considerations that are also a major factor.

wouldn't VCU bring a new TV market? And wouldn't that lead to more $$ for the conference?

 

[Violet Ram]

wouldn't VCU bring a new TV market? And wouldn't that lead to more $$ for the conference?

Yes. Anyone who claims adding good caliber basketball programs to the Big East will only cause a split of the existing pie are either naïve or being dishonest. A legitimate question is how much would media partners be willing to pay for VCU or another team. The second fallacy you'll encounter is that people automatically assume that VCU and other additions won't add value without any valid reason (you'll likely get a VCU only makes 350k in its current contract, so obviously VCU isn't worth 4 million, but those same people will instantly tell you that Gonzaga is sure thing but makes about the same from its media contract). My guess is that if the Big East is worth 50 million, then VCU would be worth at least $4.5 million. Just by looking at the little available media numbers, VCU appears to perform as well as any team not named Villanova.

 

[Valley drop step]

Just for fun I looked into Temple's Football financials....hard to find a ton of info, but it looks like they spend roughly 24 million and make roughly 24 million.....that seems dubious to me, I'm guessing they're cooking the books in a way that makes it look like they are NOT hemorrhaging money for a sport that they are historically awful at. Seems like 121 players are involved in D1 football....that's a LOT of schollies and whatnot, just sayin'

Temple University Athletics Programs

What sports are offered at Temple University? Learn how each athletic ranks, how much revenue it brings in, the average sports aid per student athlete at Temple, and more.

www.collegefactual.com

I did find some info on how football costs are killing off other sports at Temple....that's always a morbidly fascinating read

Temple cuts highlight cost of big-time football

While Temple attributes the decision to cut seven teams to other issues, it is one of many universities that have cut Olympic sports while upping spending on football.

www.insidehighered.com

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2013/12/10/experts-temple-cut-sports-because.html

In Temple's football defense? They did have a nice little run of AAC relevance (whatever THAT is worth) in 2015/2016 AND they played in the Union Home Mortgage Gasparilla Bowl in 2017

When I do think of Non Top 10/Non SEC teams in college football....which is rare....I just picture this

aaaaaaaaaaand this

The AAC deal pays 7 million. With the defections, Disney/ESPN can void the deal. A new deal may look more like MAC Sunbelt deals. Would Temple staying in a far flung league with those costs make sense?

parking the football program somewhere (independent, FCS etc) and returning to the A10 may be a pretty good option.

 

[BradRamFan]

While the BE may not want to split its monetary take between more schools, I think it is missing the boat by refusing to expand. The P4/5 is not just expanding to increase their financials, they are expanding to obtain more power.....and power is the key.
The B12 just pulling in 3 NCAA caliber teams from a conference ranked lower then the BE. Moving to the B12 automatically give Houston, Cinci and BYU a higher start of season ranking than they get from being in the AAC and West simply by virtue of being in the B12. As more lower conference power teams (in basketball) move to major conferences, it puts the squeeze on the BE as far as their power ranking and how many teams it can get into the Dance. Houston, BYU and Cinci have just upgraded their chances of getting an at-large by a very wide margin over being in the AAC and elevates them above more BE teams without even having played a single game. This could hurt the BE because the fewer teams you get into the Dance, the less power you ultimately have and this could directly lead to lower revenue and a lower TV contract when all is said and done.
Just look at VCU......I don't think we would have made it to some of our Dancing between 2012 to 2021 had we stayed in the CAA....moving to the A10 gave us more power simply by being in the A10.
So the P5 have just added 3 more NCAA caliber teams to their suit that could bump a team or two from the BE conference down to the NIT. The only way to compete against that it to increase your power....even at the cost of money in the short term. Just think how power rankings would shift in the basketball world if the PAC12 was able to get a team like Gonzaga in their fold. Sure, Gonzaga gets to the dance even with the PAC12 but adding a Gonzaga would shift the overall NET and RPI of the conference as a whole, strengthening and giving the conference more power.
Then add to this fact that more and more of these power conferences are forming alliances to play interconference games during the OOC and effectively shutting out many strong non-power conference teams. Plus, I bet within the next decade, a superconference like the SEC will say, they want to play an additional home/away conference game during conference play which prevents us from playing all our teams playing each other. So let us take the one or two teams in our conference that we can't play during conference play and play them during OOC and we won't count it as part of our conference rankings......putting a further squeeze on the BE and other conferences during OOC.
It is all about power.....whereas the BE is thinking just about money.

 

[share the ball]

So... The Big East made a clear statement with welcoming UConn back, in that the private/catholic affiliation is less important than your ability to sustain success as a basketball program.

Uconn leaving Big East had everything to do with football - It was the Catholic 7 that made the choice to separate from what was the BIg East football schools around 2013- Catholic 7 paid a sum of money to keep the Big East name and their tourney at MSG - the non Catholic 7 (plus some add-ons)became the AAC. The Catholic 7 was able to affect the split because the voting majority in the Big East conf shifted when a few former Big East football schools went to the ACC and gave the non football schools the majority voting bloc in the conference
Big east as we know extended invites to Butler (private but non secterian), Creighton and Xavier (later two catholic and private) to get to 10 schools
Word was Big East approached UConn (my guess is that is open to debate) in 2019 or thereabouts about rejoining conference because they were viewed as a school that could bring greater value to TV media contract with both their mens (4 Nattys) and womens (11 Nattys) basketball programs.
I believe UConns unique relationship as a member of Big East from almost the beginning is one of the major reasons (beyond finances) they were extended an invite as a major public university
Could they do it again - yes but to me it is after they make runs at Dayton and St Louis
interesting history is that Holy Cross turned down Big East overtures back in late 70s or early 80s as did Rutgers (who later joined in 91 when Big East added some football only schools)

 

[BaNgMyPrOgRaM]

Just because the BE is not expanding right now Brad. doesn't mean they wont and there will be schools chomping at the bit.

 

[WillWeaverRVA]

Just because the BE is not expanding right now Brad. doesn't mean they wont and there will be schools chomping at the bit.

Especially if the P4*’s revenues increase as a result of this realignment. The BE will be chomping at the bit to try to supplant the B12. Their current TV contract with Fox is quite lucrative as it is, AND they’ve got Gus Johnson calling their games.

 

[mike7842]

ACC Sports writer for the TD. Ain't gonna happen.
"Would West Virginia fit better in the ACC’s footprint? Would the Mountaineers, especially their football and men’s basketball teams, prosper reuniting in the ACC with former Big East rivals Virginia Tech, Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse and Miami?
Yes and yes."

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

Especially if the P4*’s revenues increase as a result of this realignment. The BE will be chomping at the bit to try to supplant the B12. Their current TV contract with Fox is quite lucrative as it is, AND they’ve got Gus Johnson calling their games.

The Big East is not going to supplant the Big 12, simply because of football. Regarding basketball, The Big 12 may drop some, but it will be negligible. Houston has been a better program than Texas for several years, and I would say they are as good, or better, than Oklahoma. Cincinnati has a storied basketball past as recently as when Mick Cronin was there three years ago. And I wouldn't sleep on UCF and Johnny Dawkins. Regarding Brigham Young, they have had only one sub 20 win season in the last 17 years. The Big 12 is not adding a bunch of pansies to replace Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

One other tidbit regarding the Big 12. Don't be surprised to see TCU join the PAC 12. Both sides have had discussions in the past, but TCU's religious affiliation has held them back in the past. TCU has been working hard recently to distance itself from that religious affiliation. If the PAC 12 were to expand, the state of Texas would be very attractive to them. Both TCU and Houston would bring the PAC 12 huge TV markets in the central time zone.