How are you feeling right now about the team and program?

vcu2016

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Well, could the NIL money be having an effect on "team ball". It's no longer about the team, it's about the individual. Do you think maybe our players are auditioning? Maybe that is why coaches (not only MR) are finding it harder to "coach". The players are simply not listening to coach. I would think this would especially be true in the higher mid majors. Also, maybe some of the players are not playing as hard so as not to risk injury.
I mean sure that's possible, but that shouldn't change what MR is supposed to do. MR needs to coach no matter what. He needs to coach like everyone wants to be there and like there is no transfer portal and the guys who work hard and buy in and are willing to listen and learn, they should play, the others shouldn't. The portal shouldn't affect Rhoades' job objectively, and he shouldn't be worrying about making a guy happy so he won't leave 3 months from now. We have a game on Sunday to worry about, if he's worried about making everyone happy then he shouldn't be coaching. We will always field a roster, and quite honestly I'd rather have dudes here that want to play for each other and VCU and aren't poaching programs for money.

If a guy doesn't want to work hard in practice or listen to coaches then he doesn't play, simple as that. I'm sure we have quite a few guys who would love that opportunity, not to mention, compacting our rotations and roster might not be a half bad idea.
 
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In response to the thread title I'll start by agreeing with the general sentiment around here in that I too feel pretty dismal right now although my reasons are different than what I have been reading. I am genuinely curious for those who are frustrated with Rhoades and want to see him gone which programs around the country they are comparing us to. I can't think of more than one mid-major program right now modeling towards greatness and clearly on the cusp of being invited to a larger conference. While this is not an attempt to defend our coach I hold serious reservations for a burn it all down and start fresh approach mainly because it is my firm view that college sports, love it or hate it, has completely and totally changed with the arrival of NIL coupled with the transfer portal. It is also my view that a lot of those who pushed for such changes have yet to fully appreciate, or simple don't care, how much damage those two changes are going to have on the majority of programs. As much as I want to hold on to the idea that we can ride past, present or future success to a higher level I've arrived at the acceptance of that being closer to something of a fantasy in the current era. The data sample is so small right now but the introduction of money to college athletes and doing away with transfer rules requiring undergraduate student athletes to sit out a year after transferring is surely going to further tilt the deck against everything we aim to achieve. Again, small sample size, but look what happened to last year's big success stories with Murray State and Saint Peters. As soon as the ball stopped bouncing they became total rebuilds from the top down. I mean everyone bolted. In the last 15 years (before NIL & transfer rules) the only real successful campaign to raise and sustain a program's profile that comes to my mind is Butler. People will quickly point to Gonzaga but their momentum started two decades ago and Mark Few has publicly stated he's going to struggle to compete for recruits under the NIL rule changes as it really comes down to resources.

My bitterness is deeper than the coaching staff or who's more deserving of a few minutes of playing time. My true concern is we're no longer competing on anything remotely close to a level playing field and I'm growing less convinced of the possibilities each passing day. I wish I felt differently but there's a growing sense of dreams slipping away and no replacement coach is going to change it given the sudden changes in the landscape of college sports. The big boys have won.

Yes. Fire Ed. Solves all.
 

Love2Ram

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I’m comparing us to VCU... from 2007 to 2017. With 4 different coaches.
Okay. You are unhappy and you missed my entire point. I'm sorry we aren't as good as we once were when we were at our best and you feel the way you do. I get your sentiment. You're upset and if we don't advance to the NCAA tournament you want our coach fired. Did I leave anything out?
 

vcu2016

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In response to the thread title I'll start by agreeing with the general sentiment around here in that I too feel pretty dismal right now although my reasons are different than what I have been reading. I am genuinely curious for those who are frustrated with Rhoades and want to see him gone which programs around the country they are comparing us to. I can't think of more than one mid-major program right now modeling towards greatness and clearly on the cusp of being invited to a larger conference. While this is not an attempt to defend our coach I hold serious reservations for a burn it all down and start fresh approach mainly because it is my firm view that college sports, love it or hate it, has completely and totally changed with the arrival of NIL coupled with the transfer portal. It is also my view that a lot of those who pushed for such changes have yet to fully appreciate, or simple don't care, how much damage those two changes are going to have on the majority of programs. As much as I want to hold on to the idea that we can ride past, present or future success to a higher level I've arrived at the acceptance of that being closer to something of a fantasy in the current era. The data sample is so small right now but the introduction of money to college athletes and doing away with transfer rules requiring undergraduate student athletes to sit out a year after transferring is surely going to further tilt the deck against everything we aim to achieve. Again, small sample size, but look what happened to last year's big success stories with Murray State and Saint Peters. As soon as the ball stopped bouncing they became total rebuilds from the top down. I mean everyone bolted. In the last 15 years (before NIL & transfer rules) the only real successful campaign to raise and sustain a program's profile that comes to my mind is Butler. People will quickly point to Gonzaga but their momentum started two decades ago and Mark Few has publicly stated he's going to struggle to compete for recruits under the NIL rule changes as it really comes down to resources.

My bitterness is deeper than the coaching staff or who's more deserving of a few minutes of playing time. My true concern is we're no longer competing on anything remotely close to a level playing field and I'm growing less convinced of the possibilities each passing day. I wish I felt differently but there's a growing sense of dreams slipping away and no replacement coach is going to change it given the sudden changes in the landscape of college sports. The big boys have won.
I don't want to speak for others, but I for one am just comparing VCU to VCU, no one else. We are an anomaly there is no denying that. What we've been able to accomplish since 2011 is frankly unprecedented for a program at our level. With the success though comes a shift in expectations, and I've already mentioned this multiple times that aspiring to play in the NCAA's isn't an unrealistic expectation at all for us year over year. Winning games would be a bonus, but I think most fans would be happy seeing our name on selection Sunday.

There seems to be an issue with this coaching staff recognizing talent. Obviously, the top level transfers will go to other blue bloods, that's to be expected, but our transfers generally over MR tenure here have been subpar to say the least. Every team has to adjust and manage the transfer portal and the implementation of NIL, but despite those things, we have the most complete and talented roster I have seen VCU have since I've started watching them in 2013. That is what people are pissed about. Against all odds, we have a fantastic roster, but nothing to show for it and that is truly the most perplexing and frustrating aspect of this team this year. On paper this team has round of 32 potential with everyone playing healthy at their best, but the only thing we have on paper right now is a 5-4 record. 6 years into this and we are actually worse than when Will Wade was here with far less talent top to bottom. If Will Wade had this talent, that would be a scary thought. There is just something about MR that isn't clicking with the guys on the team and it's not a one off. This has been an ongoing thing and I think that coupled with the other points I made are why people are so confused and frustrated and want a change.
 

rammad90

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JT’s best season was under Wade.

And Melvin swore by Wade. Would like to talk to Melvin again about this a few years later.
If you play sports you know some guys love a HC and others not so much. Chris Cheeks loved Polio, so did Lionel Bacon. Other guys couldn't stand the guy. It happens.

Mostly look at the guys who the coach gives the green light, they typically dont have an issue with even the biggest of Arse holes. Others who feel the wrath have yet another opion.

Athletes like the coaches how get them paid, and give them minutes.

I never liked WW. Even as an assistant. I saw him do some shady stuff when he thought no one was looking. Really turned me off. Turns out I was right and he duped a lot of good people.
 

vcu2016

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If you play sports you know some guys love a HC and others not so much. Chris Cheeks loved Polio, so did Lionel Bacon. Other guys couldn't stand the guy. It happens.

Mostly look at the guys who the coach gives the green light, they typically dont have an issue with even the biggest of Arse holes. Others who feel the wrath have yet another opion.

Athletes like the coaches how get them paid, and give them minutes.

I never liked WW. Even as an assistant. I saw him do some shady stuff when he thought no one was looking. Really turned me off. Turns out I was right and he duped a lot of good people.
You’re entitled to have your reservations with him as a man or coach or both, but to deny that he can coach (not saying you are) is foolish. Will Wade can absolutely coach his you know what’s off. His character? Questionable. His coaching ability? Undeniable. Two things can be true at once, you can be a sleazy scumbag, and also a fantastic coach and he happened to fall into both categories lol.
 

rammad90

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I don't want to speak for others, but I for one am just comparing VCU to VCU, no one else. We are an anomaly there is no denying that. What we've been able to accomplish since 2011 is frankly unprecedented for a program at our level. With the success though comes a shift in expectations, and I've already mentioned this multiple times that aspiring to play in the NCAA's isn't an unrealistic expectation at all for us year over year. Winning games would be a bonus, but I think most fans would be happy seeing our name on selection Sunday.

There seems to be an issue with this coaching staff recognizing talent. Obviously, the top level transfers will go to other blue bloods, that's to be expected, but our transfers generally over MR tenure here have been subpar to say the least. Every team has to adjust and manage the transfer portal and the implementation of NIL, but despite those things, we have the most complete and talented roster I have seen VCU have since I've started watching them in 2013. That is what people are pissed about. Against all odds, we have a fantastic roster, but nothing to show for it and that is truly the most perplexing and frustrating aspect of this team this year. On paper this team has round of 32 potential with everyone playing healthy at their best, but the only thing we have on paper right now is a 5-4 record. 6 years into this and we are actually worse than when Will Wade was here with far less talent top to bottom. If Will Wade had this talent, that would be a scary thought. There is just something about MR that isn't clicking with the guys on the team and it's not a one off. This has been an ongoing thing and I think that coupled with the other points I made are why people are so confused and frustrated and want a change.
I think that's an issue with your perspective. You have been watching since 2013. You are one of those fans to whom the AD catered just because they ponied up cash due to us winning.

However, if you'd been a true fan. One who purchased season tickets even when we didnt have a snowballs chance in heck of making the tournament. You'd likely have a different perspective. You jumped on the band wagon and now you want yours now and plenty of it.

Yes, I am pissed with the state of things. But not because I think Mike is a horrible HC or the program is on the road to heck. I am pissed because I told all of us after 2011 that we were selling our souls to new fans and donors who really had no real love for the program but more love for the event/spectacle that was VCU. They wanted their version of Duke/Kentucky/UNC albeit on a smaller scale.

Ed and crew priced out a lot of loyal fans for the new donors such as yourself. Now they only have theirselves to blame when you new guys demand blood. You really weren't "I bleed black and gold fans" you were I love winning fans and there is nothing wrong with that.

By the way when I stated no major donors have an issue. I define major donors as those who have been with the program at least 20 years, have given at least 6 figures during that period and currently give at a 10k plus clip. Not many on this board qualify as major donors.

However, if you do have a talk with Ed or better yet contact the University President Mike Rao. If you are truly a big donor he will surely hear you out and make sure Ed listens as well. How do I know? He's done it for me several times.
 

rammad90

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You’re entitled to have your reservations with him as a man or coach or both, but to deny that he can coach (not saying you are) is foolish. Will Wade can absolutely coach his you know what’s off. His character? Questionable. His coaching ability? Undeniable. Two things can be true at once, you can be a sleazy scumbag, and also a fantastic coach and he happened to fall into both categories lol.
First, I have never stated he couldn't coach. I stated I never liked him and he didnt have the right character/moral compass to be the HC at VCU IMO.

So read critically before you accuse people of statements they never made or positions they never supported.
 

rammad90

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Okay. You are unhappy and you missed my entire point. I'm sorry we aren't as good as we once were when we were at our best and you feel the way you do. I get your sentiment. You're upset and if we don't advance to the NCAA tournament you want our coach fired. Did I leave anything out?
Love, I think you nailed it. My issue with Mike is that he isnt producing relative to his salary. If he were in the 500k -800k range I'd be fine. I'd always want more but I'd be fine.

However, when you pay a guy top dollar you want top results and losing basically a pay game at home by double digits just doesnt cut it.

People act however as if we are now GMU or Rhode Island. The bottom hasn't fallen out, just yet and we do have talented guys. They just need to get it together and Mike needs to figure out how to get that done.

Am I happy? Heck no. Do I think all is lost? Heck no. Do I think Ed needs to have a man to man, boss to subordinate talk with Mike and set expectations ? Yes.

We have all we need to be a top 30 team year in and year out. We are falling short with Mike. In his defense, his first year was on WW and how the mess he left. WW benefited from the core SS left him.
 

Ramcounter

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I think that's an issue with your perspective. You have been watching since 2013. You are one of those fans to whom the AD catered just because they ponied up cash due to us winning.

However, if you'd been a true fan. One who purchased season tickets even when we didnt have a snowballs chance in heck of making the tournament. You'd likely have a different perspective. You jumped on the band wagon and now you want yours now and plenty of it.

Yes, I am pissed with the state of things. But not because I think Mike is a horrible HC or the program is on the road to heck. I am pissed because I told all of us after 2011 that we were selling our souls to new fans and donors who really had no real love for the program but more love for the event/spectacle that was VCU. They wanted their version of Duke/Kentucky/UNC albeit on a smaller scale.

Ed and crew priced out a lot of loyal fans for the new donors such as yourself. Now they only have theirselves to blame when you new guys demand blood. You really weren't "I bleed black and gold fans" you were I love winning fans and there is nothing wrong with that.

By the way when I stated no major donors have an issue. I define major donors as those who have been with the program at least 20 years, have given at least 6 figures during that period and currently give at a 10k plus clip. Not many on this board qualify as major donors.

However, if you do have a talk with Ed or better yet contact the University President Mike Rao. If you are truly a big donor he will surely hear you out and make sure Ed listens as well. How do I know? He's done it for me several times.
If I may, the expectations changed since 2013. I remember the days of the family 4 pack deals in the corners, exchanging a losing $1 scratcher for a game ticket. IMHO that was the real risk of the short term cash grab by Ed at the expense of the long term fans. If the program ever hit the skids the expectations and bar was moved much higher and the what have you done lately attitude would backfire.

If the prices and attitude from Ed were that of the Grant Era I don’t think people here would be complaining as much.
 

VCU Heel

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Okay. You are unhappy and you missed my entire point. I'm sorry we aren't as good as we once were when we were at our best and you feel the way you do. I get your sentiment. You're upset and if we don't advance to the NCAA tournament you want our coach fired. Did I leave anything out?
Not a thing. We aren’t as good as we should be. We haven’t been for 6 years. Rhoades isn’t a good coach. Glad you understand.

Apparently, you have low expectations. That fine for you I guess.
 
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I mean sure that's possible, but that shouldn't change what MR is supposed to do. MR needs to coach no matter what. He needs to coach like everyone wants to be there and like there is no transfer portal and the guys who work hard and buy in and are willing to listen and learn, they should play, the others shouldn't. The portal shouldn't affect Rhoades' job objectively, and he shouldn't be worrying about making a guy happy so he won't leave 3 months from now. We have a game on Sunday to worry about, if he's worried about making everyone happy then he shouldn't be coaching. We will always field a roster, and quite honestly I'd rather have dudes here that want to play for each other and VCU and aren't poaching programs for money.

If a guy doesn't want to work hard in practice or listen to coaches then he doesn't play, simple as that. I'm sure we have quite a few guys who would love that opportunity, not to mention, compacting our rotations and roster might not be a half bad idea.
I would suggest that he needs to make the players believe that the best way to increase their personal stock is to increase the stock of the team overall. A risiong tide lifts all boats as it were. THey were chosen because their skills made for a more effective team effort in this team sport.
It usually works out that the guys don't really buy it when they see see it in practices at first and they fight it. They struggle amd sometime in JAn or Feb they either rebell (2020) start doing what they want and it works or try doing what he wants and it gets more fluid.
The guys are not going to forget the portal but they will want to improve their stock. Benching them if they don't behave may drive them off but benching will lower their stock and thats BAD for all.
 

VCU Heel

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First, I have never stated he couldn't coach. I stated I never liked him and he didnt have the right character/moral compass to be the HC at VCU IMO.

So read critically before you accuse people of statements they never made or positions they never supported.
He literally said that you didn’t say that WW couldn’t coach and then you told him to read critically before accusing people of statements they never made. LMFAO
 
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This thread is doing a wonderful job of illustrating the way different VCU fans have different expectations and how that impacts the conversation of if our program is broken and needs fixing or if everything is perfectly fine.

Some fans here are on their high horse that VCU's program used to be a model of excellence and one that had a fantastic and fun game day atmosphere, and that those things have vanished, and that this is unacceptable particularly for a coach in Mike Rhoades who is cruising toward zero NCAA Tournament wins in six years and was not brought in here to lower the level we were at but rather keep it at the same level at minimum if not raise it.

Other fans on here are on their high horse that VCU's program overall is fine, that stability is to be the top ideal and that because Mike Rhoades says he wants to stay here for life and he's a really good person, it's crazy to discuss dismissing him after six seasons even if we have zero NCAA Tournament wins over that span.

No one can argue that Rhoades is having a gigantic amount of success, but that doesn't seem to be the main debate.

The lack of agreement over which type of fan is right is a major thing our fanbase needs to try to sort out. I think most people who want Rhoades gone acknowledge that firing him wouldn't guarantee a higher rate of success instantly, but they feel that his mediocre returns make it necessary to take that risk. Others would rather lean toward stability particularly because they're smitten with the idea that Rhoades wants to be a "VCU lifer".
 
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This thread is doing a wonderful job of illustrating the way different VCU fans have different expectations and how that impacts the conversation of if our program is broken and needs fixing or if everything is perfectly fine.

Some fans here are on their high horse that VCU's program used to be a model of excellence and one that had a fantastic and fun game day atmosphere, and that those things have vanished, and that this is unacceptable particularly for a coach in Mike Rhoades who is cruising toward zero NCAA Tournament wins in six years and was not brought in here to lower the level we were at but rather keep it at the same level at minimum if not raise it.

Other fans on here are on their high horse that VCU's program overall is fine, that stability is to be the top ideal and that because Mike Rhoades says he wants to stay here for life and he's a really good person, it's crazy to discuss dismissing him after six seasons even if we have zero NCAA Tournament wins over that span.

No one can argue that Rhoades is having a gigantic amount of success, but that doesn't seem to be the main debate.

The lack of agreement over which type of fan is right is a major thing our fanbase needs to try to sort out. I think most people who want Rhoades gone acknowledge that firing him wouldn't guarantee a higher rate of success instantly, but they feel that his mediocre returns make it necessary to take that risk. Others would rather lean toward stability particularly because they're smitten with the idea that Rhoades wants to be a "VCU lifer".

No the debate is never is Rhoades doing well. It’s always can we do worse?
 
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