How are you feeling right now about the team and program?

[Mistachill]

No one can argue that Rhoades is having a gigantic amount of success, but that doesn't seem to be the main debate.

Huh...that can absolutely be argued.

 

[SpiderRAM]

Well, touche, but say what you want, the results on the court spoke for themselves. Dudes may not have ALL loved him lol, but they knew deep down what he was teaching worked, and you can put aside differences if it results in winning, and WW won a lot of games.

Winning cures a lot.

But do we want a coach who is modeling an unethical cheating lifestyle just for the sake of winning games? I surely don’t.

 

[Ramdog]

In response to the thread title I'll start by agreeing with the general sentiment around here in that I too feel pretty dismal right now although my reasons are different than what I have been reading. I am genuinely curious for those who are frustrated with Rhoades and want to see him gone which programs around the country they are comparing us to. I can't think of more than one mid-major program right now modeling towards greatness and clearly on the cusp of being invited to a larger conference. While this is not an attempt to defend our coach I hold serious reservations for a burn it all down and start fresh approach mainly because it is my firm view that college sports, love it or hate it, has completely and totally changed with the arrival of NIL coupled with the transfer portal. It is also my view that a lot of those who pushed for such changes have yet to fully appreciate, or simple don't care, how much damage those two changes are going to have on the majority of programs. As much as I want to hold on to the idea that we can ride past, present or future success to a higher level I've arrived at the acceptance of that being closer to something of a fantasy in the current era. The data sample is so small right now but the introduction of money to college athletes and doing away with transfer rules requiring undergraduate student athletes to sit out a year after transferring is surely going to further tilt the deck against everything we aim to achieve. Again, small sample size, but look what happened to last year's big success stories with Murray State and Saint Peters. As soon as the ball stopped bouncing they became total rebuilds from the top down. I mean everyone bolted. In the last 15 years (before NIL & transfer rules) the only real successful campaign to raise and sustain a program's profile that comes to my mind is Butler. People will quickly point to Gonzaga but their momentum started two decades ago and Mark Few has publicly stated he's going to struggle to compete for recruits under the NIL rule changes as it really comes down to resources.

My bitterness is deeper than the coaching staff or who's more deserving of a few minutes of playing time. My true concern is we're no longer competing on anything remotely close to a level playing field and I'm growing less convinced of the possibilities each passing day. I wish I felt differently but there's a growing sense of dreams slipping away and no replacement coach is going to change it given the sudden changes in the landscape of college sports. The big boys have won.

Well said

its a different world

 

[Valley drop step]

But do we want a coach who is modeling an unethical cheating lifestyle just for the sake of winning games? I surely don’t.

Will was helping recruits obtain money from a third party who wanted to give money. Basically, what NIL is. Most, if not every successful big time program was doing it to some degree. It’s just money. The NCAA tournament is worth a billion dollars. The cat got out of the bag a long time ago.

 

[TampaKAP]

.........wr have lots of young talented players who are learning new roles and getting acclimated to the system..

That, at least for me is where the excitement is at...

I am excited about the talent, just not excite about the staff's ability to develop said talent. I just keep holding out hope the talent will outplay the coaching

 

[Havoc2Ut2]

I think it's reasonable to expect a dropoff from a squad that lost Ward, Curry, Williams and MBJ. All were excellent defenders, highly experienced and could score. Anyone who thought that our D wouldn't suffer with these losses has been smoking some good ganja.

The way I see it is that this squad should be bringing full Havoc full court as a rule of thumb until and if the HC D comes around.

 

[Valley drop step]

This thread is doing a wonderful job of illustrating the way different VCU fans have different expectations and how that impacts the conversation of if our program is broken and needs fixing or if everything is perfectly fine.

Some fans here are on their high horse that VCU's program used to be a model of excellence and one that had a fantastic and fun game day atmosphere, and that those things have vanished, and that this is unacceptable particularly for a coach in Mike Rhoades who is cruising toward zero NCAA Tournament wins in six years and was not brought in here to lower the level we were at but rather keep it at the same level at minimum if not raise it.

Other fans on here are on their high horse that VCU's program overall is fine, that stability is to be the top ideal and that because Mike Rhoades says he wants to stay here for life and he's a really good person, it's crazy to discuss dismissing him after six seasons even if we have zero NCAA Tournament wins over that span.

No one can argue that Rhoades is having a gigantic amount of success, but that doesn't seem to be the main debate.

The lack of agreement over which type of fan is right is a major thing our fanbase needs to try to sort out. I think most people who want Rhoades gone acknowledge that firing him wouldn't guarantee a higher rate of success instantly, but they feel that his mediocre returns make it necessary to take that risk. Others would rather lean toward stability particularly because they're smitten with the idea that Rhoades wants to be a "VCU lifer".

A healthy and productive debate could have happened six years. If your hiring a coach with an existing record, that record should probably be a winning record. A sub .500 record in CUSA should probably not have qualified.

 

[Yosi Ram]

I think it's reasonable to expect a dropoff from a squad that lost Ward, Curry, Williams and MBJ. All were excellent defenders, highly experienced and could score. Anyone who thought that our D wouldn't suffer with these losses has been smoking some good ganja.

The way I see it is that this squad should be bringing full Havoc full court as a rule of thumb until and if the HC D comes around.

Then if you're talking that team up, then they underperform last year. We had a 3 year starter, NBA draft pick--we shouldn't have flamed out in the 1st round of A10 and been a mid seed in the NIT. We were #9-12 out of the NCAA's last year.

 

[Havoc2Ut2]

Then if you're talking that team up, then they underperform last year. We had a 3 year starter, NBA draft pick--we shouldn't have flamed out in the 1st round of A10 and been a mid seed in the NIT. We were #9-12 out of the NCAA's last year.

Actually I wasn't talking anything up. Just making the point that we shouldn't have unrealistic expectations about this year's squad.

 

[vcu2016]

I think that's an issue with your perspective. You have been watching since 2013. You are one of those fans to whom the AD catered just because they ponied up cash due to us winning.

However, if you'd been a true fan. One who purchased season tickets even when we didnt have a snowballs chance in heck of making the tournament. You'd likely have a different perspective. You jumped on the band wagon and now you want yours now and plenty of it.

Yes, I am pissed with the state of things. But not because I think Mike is a horrible HC or the program is on the road to heck. I am pissed because I told all of us after 2011 that we were selling our souls to new fans and donors who really had no real love for the program but more love for the event/spectacle that was VCU. They wanted their version of Duke/Kentucky/UNC albeit on a smaller scale.

Ed and crew priced out a lot of loyal fans for the new donors such as yourself. Now they only have theirselves to blame when you new guys demand blood. You really weren't "I bleed black and gold fans" you were I love winning fans and there is nothing wrong with that.

By the way when I stated no major donors have an issue. I define major donors as those who have been with the program at least 20 years, have given at least 6 figures during that period and currently give at a 10k plus clip. Not many on this board qualify as major donors.

However, if you do have a talk with Ed or better yet contact the University President Mike Rao. If you are truly a big donor he will surely hear you out and make sure Ed listens as well. How do I know? He's done it for me several times.

A few things, I don't think it's really very fair to say someone is "not a true fan" or "doesn't bleed black and gold" because they started watching VCU at 2013 rather than 1993 for example. I just turned 27 years old. I started watching VCU my junior year of high school because I was recruited to, and received a scholarship here. I'm not sure how old you are, I would presume older than me, but brushing someone off simply because they haven't been alive long enough or a fan long enough doesn't seem very fair and honestly comes off a bit pretentious.

I'm not going to sit here and nor have I sat here and acted like I've been through the hardships and know what you guys have gone through because I don't. I don't know anything really even before 2012. I have no opinion on the final 4 team because I wasn't a fan at that point and I'm not going to sit here and act like I was, I know when to stay in my own lane. I'm also well aware of how our athletic department took advantage of the winning and stuck it to donors and got a little big for their britches. Just because Ed or Rao will sit down and hear your perspective, they have no obligation to change anything (they should because we are a huge contributor to the program) but they aren't. Ultimately, the buck stops with them and quite frankly they can do whatever they want.

That being said, I am still just as entitled to an opinion as you. I'm not sure how many younger posters there are on here but I have a smaller sample size of VCU basketball to work with. That doesn't discredit or invalidate any of my observations or opinions just as your tenure as a fan doesn't discredit or invalidate any of your opinions. I'm simply making the observation that the program under the wing of SS and WW was at a much higher level than the program has been and is currently under MR. We don't win as many big games or even just games in general, enthusiasm is way down, game day experience is down, fan turnout way down, sellout streak gone, everything is in a worse spot and that happened exclusively under MR watch after being handed this program on a silver platter.

 

[vcu2016]

First, I have never stated he couldn't coach. I stated I never liked him and he didnt have the right character/moral compass to be the HC at VCU IMO.

So read critically before you accuse people of statements they never made or positions they never supported.

So, if you read my post you would see I explicitly stated that "I'm not saying you are" saying he can't coach. Might not be a bad idea to take your own advice and read critically as well.

I was simply making a generic statement that two things can be true at once. He can be a complete POS but still be a great coach. I'm agreeing with you that he is a shiesty human being. But he's a shiester that can coach and that was my point, that's all.

 

[vcu2016]

I would suggest that he needs to make the players believe that the best way to increase their personal stock is to increase the stock of the team overall. A risiong tide lifts all boats as it were. THey were chosen because their skills made for a more effective team effort in this team sport.
It usually works out that the guys don't really buy it when they see see it in practices at first and they fight it. They struggle amd sometime in JAn or Feb they either rebell (2020) start doing what they want and it works or try doing what he wants and it gets more fluid.
The guys are not going to forget the portal but they will want to improve their stock. Benching them if they don't behave may drive them off but benching will lower their stock and thats BAD for all.

I mean, in a perfect world, yes. You're 100% right. The problem is, these young kids in high school in these AAU programs are all just pumped up about how good THEY are individually all the time. AAU isn't a team, it's a bunch of solo dudes. When you are propped up and told your crap doesn't stink and showered with praise and never really coached hard or reprimanded, these kids won't understand what you are saying.

The NCAA has now gone and empowered the individual even more. There really is no incentive to put the team first at this point. You want to play right now? Ok, go ahead and quit your team and go somewhere else. Kids aren't taught to handle adversity and that life isn't just handed to them that they have to work hard to earn their keep. It's not even really their fault, it's the parents, coaches, mentors, etc. who pump this "me me me" mentality into these kids.

I obviously do not have all the answers, but as a coach, your job is to galvanize your team. That is MR job to do that, and he has not been doing it well.

 

[VAHills]

A few things, I don't think it's really very fair to say someone is "not a true fan" or "doesn't bleed black and gold" because they started watching VCU at 2013 rather than 1993 for example. I just turned 27 years old. I started watching VCU my junior year of high school because I was recruited to, and received a scholarship here. I'm not sure how old you are, I would presume older than me, but brushing someone off simply because they haven't been alive long enough or a fan long enough doesn't seem very fair and honestly comes off a bit pretentious.

I'm not going to sit here and nor have I sat here and acted like I've been through the hardships and know what you guys have gone through because I don't. I don't know anything really even before 2012. I have no opinion on the final 4 team because I wasn't a fan at that point and I'm not going to sit here and act like I was, I know when to stay in my own lane. I'm also well aware of how our athletic department took advantage of the winning and stuck it to donors and got a little big for their britches. Just because Ed or Rao will sit down and hear your perspective, they have no obligation to change anything (they should because we are a huge contributor to the program) but they aren't. Ultimately, the buck stops with them and quite frankly they can do whatever they want.

That being said, I am still just as entitled to an opinion as you. I'm not sure how many younger posters there are on here but I have a smaller sample size of VCU basketball to work with. That doesn't discredit or invalidate any of my observations or opinions just as your tenure as a fan doesn't discredit or invalidate any of your opinions. I'm simply making the observation that the program under the wing of SS and WW was at a much higher level than the program has been and is currently under MR. We don't win as many big games or even just games in general, enthusiasm is way down, game day experience is down, fan turnout way down, sellout streak gone, everything is in a worse spot and that happened exclusively under MR watch after being handed this program on a silver platter.

Awesome post, glad you are on here contributing.

 

[vcu2016]

But do we want a coach who is modeling an unethical cheating lifestyle just for the sake of winning games? I surely don’t.

I'm not sitting here advocating for bringing back Will Wade at all, I'm simply making the observation that he's a great coach. I honestly have mixed opinions on the subject about bringing him back. It's easy to go down memory lane and want to re-create the seasons of great success, but there is a lot of red tape around WW. I think there are plenty of good coaches out there that aren't handing guys wads of cash inside of happy meal boxes (hyperbole of course).

 

[vcu2016]

Awesome post, glad you are on here contributing.

Thank you, I definitely appreciate it. It's been a (relatively) warm welcome lol. I know I'm poking a hornets nest here with certain topics and people but I'm glad to be here.