It’s time to start talking about Mike Rhoades’ future at VCU.

HBK

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Posts
6,333
Likes
13,698
I would use the term "fair year." No it wasn't a disaster, no it wasn't awful, no it wasn't bad. But to me making the NIT isn't a good year, nor is it a successful season unless we entered the season expecting to be bad and we exceeded projections to get into the NIT. But then the question is, why are we entering any season expecting to be bad?
You and I have a different definition of "fair year" or "bad year". Fine with me. That's life.

As for last season, I didn't go into it thinking we'd be bad, but Rhoades himself was consistent in the preseason, saying that the team would "have to go through some stuff without Ace." (I think I remember the quote accurately.) He said it after the St. Peter's game, too. I heard him say it about a half-dozen times. TRANSLATION: we won't be very good early on, but when Ace returns we'll be fine. Guess what? That's exactly what happened. We were terrible without Ace at the start, got better without Ace in the non-conference tournament, and then became a very good team once Ace returned.

Some folks ripped Mike for saying this preseason that he had as deep a team as he's had at VCU. Well, it sure is trending in that direction, so Mike may have been right about the depth of this season's team.

Point is this: no one knows their team as well as the coaching staff. Mike warned everyone about the early season last year, but few listened. I did, so perhaps my expectations weren't as high as yours, especially without Ace in the lineup. Again, that doesn't mean it wasn't disappointing to miss the NCAAs. It simply means that you and I view some of this differently, which is fine. Life goes on.
 

HBK

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Posts
6,333
Likes
13,698
I never liked the whole justifying a loss because it was a good team anyway. We swept UR then loss the most important match up. Not only that we got beat handily. Even if you throw the last games out we had chances to clinch a NCAA spot and blew those games. Most of which we had in control and gave them away.
It's not justifying a loss. It's stating an obvious fact. Good teams are harder to beat than bad teams. That's why they are good and others are bad. It's been that way throughout the history of sports.

We had won 8-in-a-row and 11 of 12 when we went into SLU at the end of last season. We couldn't have been much hotter as a team.
 

HBK

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Posts
6,333
Likes
13,698
Cool. Tell that to our AD that expects a national championship or the major donors.
As a major donor, and someone who played team sports, I can speak only for myself. Every season and every team is a new experience. I've never once heard Mike say this was his perfect team. I've never heard any coach say that about any team, because in college sports, a coach is dealing with kids. Kids aren't perfect. If I ever hear of someone on our staff saying this is a perfect team, then I'll report back to RamNation, but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Posts
3,499
Likes
3,640
It's not justifying a loss. It's stating an obvious fact. Good teams are harder to beat than bad teams. That's why they are good and others are bad. It's been that way throughout the history of sports.

We had won 8-in-a-row and 11 of 12 when we went into SLU at the end of last season. We couldn't have been much hotter as a team.

Streaks are nice and all but it doesn’t matter if you miss out on the ultimate goal. We loss the games we needed to win. As result the streak is irrelevant. The goal every year is NCAAs. How you get there is to a point is irrelevant. I say to a point because losing all year and trying to run the A10 in the tourney is not exactly a recipe for success. However the point is every year the goal is NCAAs. Whether that’s an at large or tourney win. Saying we were the hottest team is great and all but we didn’t get the job done when it mattered which is what matters.

As a major donor, and someone who played team sports, I can speak only for myself. Every season and every team is a new experience. I've never once heard Mike say this was his perfect team. I've never heard any coach say that about any team, because in college sports, a coach is dealing with kids. Kids aren't perfect. If I ever hear of someone on our staff saying this is a perfect team, then I'll report back to RamNation, but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath.

My point was if someone thinks the donors and ad are cool with our coach taking 6 years to put together the team they want and need they are delusional. Perfect teams are a rarity and if that’s what it takes to succeed as the poster seems to suggest than we are in for tough years. The poster said we always had a few weaknesses under Rhoades. That’s every single team! Even the national champions have a weakness. That doesn’t excuse underperforming.
 

Mistachill

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Posts
18,495
Likes
31,650
Yes, and it was a 1-point game with a minute left in the game. See, more than one thing can be true and factual. Sort of like twelve days ago, we trailed Dayton by 14 and scored only 19 points at the half, but won by a point.
The bigger point is did he have the team ready for this game? Perhaps if the team came out better prepared we wouldn't have dug such of deep hole we couldn't climb out of. Comebacks are great...as long as you come all the way back and win. There's a reason there's a W column and a L column. No almost, nice try, good comeback columns.
 

Mistachill

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Posts
18,495
Likes
31,650
You and I have a different definition of "fair year" or "bad year". Fine with me. That's life.

As for last season, I didn't go into it thinking we'd be bad, but Rhoades himself was consistent in the preseason, saying that the team would "have to go through some stuff without Ace." (I think I remember the quote accurately.) He said it after the St. Peter's game, too. I heard him say it about a half-dozen times. TRANSLATION: we won't be very good early on, but when Ace returns we'll be fine. Guess what? That's exactly what happened. We were terrible without Ace at the start, got better without Ace in the non-conference tournament, and then became a very good team once Ace returned.

Some folks ripped Mike for saying this preseason that he had as deep a team as he's had at VCU. Well, it sure is trending in that direction, so Mike may have been right about the depth of this season's team.

Point is this: no one knows their team as well as the coaching staff. Mike warned everyone about the early season last year, but few listened. I did, so perhaps my expectations weren't as high as yours, especially without Ace in the lineup. Again, that doesn't mean it wasn't disappointing to miss the NCAAs. It simply means that you and I view some of this differently, which is fine. Life goes on.
We go into EVERY season with question marks and unexpected challenges to deal with. This position that we can't properly evaluate MR's results unless he has perfect conditions to work with is frustrating.
 

HBK

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Posts
6,333
Likes
13,698
We go into EVERY season with question marks and unexpected challenges to deal with. This position that we can't properly evaluate MR's results unless he has perfect conditions to work with is frustrating.
You're absolutely right. There are challenges and question marks each and every season. However, I never said that you can't evaluate Rhoades, or anyone, unless there are perfect conditions. I never insinuated as much either. I haven't seen anyone else say that, but it's very possible I missed it. Pointing out that a team is missing it's most important piece isn't an excuse, but it's a fact. I didn't think we should lose to Wagner at home regardless of who played for us. We did, and it sucked!

In the very specific case I mentioned of last season, all I pointed out is that my expectations were tempered a bit by listening to the head coach say that the team is going to have to go through some things without Ace. That has nothing to do with evaluating Mike's job. It had to do with me paying attention to the coach and understanding that with a freshman PG (Nunn), we'd struggle early on. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as evaluation, feel free to do it under any condition. The fact is that if one evaluates Rhoades without Ace last season, the logical conclusion is that the team got better. See the team's play against Baylor and UConn, as compared to Wagner and Chattanooga. Improvement. Doesn't mean it was perfect; it wasn't, but the team got better and that's a credit to the staff and players. This season's team has gotten better. That's a credit to the players (players play) and the coaches (coaches coach).
 
Last edited:

VCU85

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Posts
4,975
Likes
8,207
I think we can give Jenkins a pass. I might not be sure, but I thought he was going through a rough patch mentally due to the death of a friend. Might not be true but that's what I heard.

Evans, was hurting and some fans cut him no slack. The kid was giving his all on bum legs, and he was catching crap for it. Imagine being a near NBA caliber guy there time 1st team all conference, 1 time conference POY and then you are relegate do the 2nd team on a team that isnt making the NCAA Tournament. Then your fans turn on you. That's gotta hurt and badly especially. at his age.

Van and Mobley's families were just wrong. Dont like it move the heck on.
I sat behind Marcus' parents at games. They were both very nice. His mom was 100% nerves the entire game, You could see her moves mimicking Marcus on the floor at times. His dad was always a very up, and positive guy. Super nice family in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

duncanlamb

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Posts
21,883
Likes
25,808
Yet you unconditionally support MR?

I love it when you play devil's advocate..it's like debating with Professor Kingsfield on the paper chase!

So, the right side of my list of column b on my excel spreadsheet labeled 'have we addressed the problem?"

1. We've been playing good to elite defense since season 2.
2. Rhoades has shown a willingness to make lineups changes when necessary
3. Uh. I forgot 3..this maybe out of order..we are recruiting top 150 players on a consistent basis now.
4. We brought johns who already has a post game and he's finally dedicated big b to one big..deloach and he's making good progress..fermin and Lawal are as raw as ass with hemorrhoids so..mixed

5. We finally got good prospect thru the portal..it appears. So maybe he's figured it out??

6. Turnovers still an issue..

Hmm...
 
Last edited:

vcu2016

Insider
Joined
Dec 8, 2022
Posts
163
Likes
191
Well, that is certainly the perspective a lot of MEAC teams have.
I couldn't agree with you more. (This is more directed to the post you replied to). The bottom line is, from 2007-2017 we had only MISSED the NCAA tournament twice. From 2018-present day we've only MADE it twice. This program has become a perennial NCAA tournament team, regardless of budget, national relevance, conference status, recruiting excellence, facilities, etc. Over that stretch, the expectation was to see our name on selection Sunday, period. Anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant. We earned and deserved our spot each year, and most years, we made it in quite easily.

This brings me to my point which is, I hate how now we have all these people on here who are making all these excuses as to why we aren't in the NCAA's every year. Who cares that we aren't a P5 school? Who cares if we are an anomaly? Who cares about whatever excuse you can think of... we have shown that we can make the tournament at this point every single year. That should be the expectation. If you perform to a certain level, you are then held to that standard. You can't now all of the sudden say "oh, well, no other mid major does what VCU has done making the NCAA tournament every year" or "well it's not fair to hold that expectation for us the way the blue bloods are held to". My response is why not? If you perform or overperform at a certain level at your job, and then all of the sudden you aren't doing that, you will be questioned and could get into trouble because you set the bar to a certain level and it's your job to maintain it. It's not we are Loyola Chicago who had a hot stretch of making the NCAA tournament 3 of 5 years but that's really it. I don't want to hear about the transfer portal and NIL either. Every single school has to deal with that now, not a viable excuse.

You can't perform like we have, and that we are capable of, and then when we aren't at that level make excuses that we don't have the capability, or the expectations are unrealistic due to our mid major status. That's such a weak, bs excuse. We have the ability every year to make it. When the season starts every year, I am fully expecting to be in contention at the end of the year for a selection Sunday call. I don't care how things used to be, or that we're a mid-major. The bar has been set, that is where we have shown we can get to and that's where I expect this program to be at every year. No one on this board heading into the season is saying "I hope we are a number two seed in the NIT this year". Why? Because y'all know better and know we are better. I hate this moving of the goal post. Had we not had an NCAA berth dry spell over the past few seasons, NO ONE would be uttering this, "no other mid major does what we do, and we can't have those expectations either" rhetoric. Give me a break. It's a privilege to have these expectations. We earned it.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Posts
3,499
Likes
3,640
I love it when you play devil's advocate..it's like debating with Professor Kingsfield on the paper chase!

So, the right side of my list of column b on my excel spreadsheet labeled 'have we addressed the problem?"

1. We've been playing good to elite defense since season 2.
2. Rhoades has shown a willingness to make lineups changes when necessary
3. Uh. I forgot 3..this maybe out of order..we are recruiting top 150 players on a consistent basis now.
4. We brought johns who already has a post game and he's finally dedicated big b to one big..deloach and he's making good progress..fermin and Lawal are as raw as ass with hemorrhoids so..mixed

5. We finally got good prospect thru the portal..it appears. So maybe he's figured it out??

6. Turnovers still an issue..

Hmm...
1. Elite defense with horrible offense. You need balance. This year we might actually get a top 100 offense in year 6 for the first time. Ironically with no real NBA stand outs.

2. Fair enough

3. Recruiting top players and having a 200-300 offense is actually more glaring. Shouldn’t be recruiting top recruits and having an offense worse than D1 schools you’ve never heard off.

4 and 5. We miss out on every significant 2023 recruiting target. We did finally get some transfers that are actually contributing though. Still our recruiting is a question mark going forward. Our recruits are really raw. That’s alittle concerning.

6. Atleast we’ve improved in turnovers but it seems like we’ll always have that issue to a point. Maybe one day we’ll really lock down but atleast it’s not insane now where every possession is a turnover. That was absurd.
 

Who_Dat_Ninja

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Posts
1,110
Likes
1,875
I don't understand the thinking that a new coach would be able to meet the "expectations" of many posters right away the 1st year or 2nd year. There would be many factors involved. I expect many players would transfer, recruits would change commitment, and it would have to start over. Is there a P5 coach who would switch to VCU without being fired? Is there a non-P5 coach who would choose VCU over a P5 job? So my question is where are we going to get a coach that will meet everyone’s expectations right away. I was frustrated that we were not playing well early as there were just too many bad plays on O & D. I yelled at TV many times with WTF are they doing. IMHO – the coaches and players were out of sync. It appears that this has improved. Beat g-moo tonight. Go Rams Go.

lol... this needs to be posted every week.
 

MobileMunchies

Elite Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Posts
18,346
Likes
51,591
I sat behind Marcus' parents at games. They were both very nice. His mom was 100% nerves the entire game, You could see her moves mimicking Marcus on the floor at times. His dad was always a very up, and positive guy. Super nice family in my opinion.
His 'rents are the best!
 

Ramdog

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Posts
9,629
Likes
21,186
1. Elite defense with horrible offense. You need balance. This year we might actually get a top 100 offense in year 6 for the first time. Ironically with no real NBA stand outs.

2. Fair enough

3. Recruiting top players and having a 200-300 offense is actually more glaring. Shouldn’t be recruiting top recruits and having an offense worse than D1 schools you’ve never heard off.

4 and 5. We miss out on every significant 2023 recruiting target. We did finally get some transfers that are actually contributing though. Still our recruiting is a question mark going forward. Our recruits are really raw. That’s alittle concerning.

6. Atleast we’ve improved in turnovers but it seems like we’ll always have that issue to a point. Maybe one day we’ll really lock down but atleast it’s not insane now where every possession is a turnover. That was absurd.
I’m less concerned then ever about freshmen recruiting

it’s all about the portal in todays college basketball

we rarely get freshmen that can contribute right away..let’s get transfers that are ready to go
 
Top