Joe Bamisile’s waiver denied by NCAA

[N Mollen]

Thing is the one time transfer is where this would happen and almost no one is talking about taking that away. The kids that are being “taught a lesson “ are the multi time transfers. For the record this year in D1 there were just over 1800 entries into the portal and less than 2% were multi time transfers. So how does making say less than 5% of the kids transferring solve anything. My guess without looking at the data is that it is a much bigger issue in football and basketball is just a victim of the larger ruling. Also some fans are never going to be happy when a player leaves be it one, two or three years. MSS graduated and was vilified by many

A few additions to your math

1. 1,800 players (I actually think the number is higher, but let's go with this) is 40% of all the players in D1. That seems, I don't know, quite shocking.

2. Fewer than 5% of those were 2d time transfers because the rules prohibited them without waivers. If the rule became go-where-you-want-anytime-you-want-without-penalty, do you think it might be higher? Like 2/3 or 3/4 of all D1 players in the portal every year? Suppose 3/4 of a team's roster dipped every year; would the basketball on the court improve with that kind of turnover?

I don't necessarily think the NCAA's current exceptions are perfect, or even very well thought through. I do believe that a kid should be able to dip if his coach leaves, no matter how many times he has transferred before, and that isn't one of the listed exceptions, which seems incredibly punitive to me.

I also hate being put in the position of defending the NCAA on any topic, because it is generally a bunch of morally bankrupt bureaucrats who are out only to protect their own nests. Anything they do is presumptively wrong to me.

And for those who think that more lenity should be shown for kids "going home to take care of a relative," I would not necessarily disagree, although it would still require some line-drawing that would be unsatisfactory to some. Should it apply to non-life-threatening injuries or health conditions? Should it apply to cousins? Second cousins once removed? The family dog?

But the idea that everyone should be free to leave whenever, no matter how many times, for whatever reason like say a bigger NIL bag or because the coach refused to promise the kid starter's minutes, and play immediately, is ill-considered. I think it would be signing the death warrant for an already-ailing sport. It would not make CBB into the G League, because of course G league players can't just change teams because they get grumpy.

Oh, and to me it is a red herring to say that these kids should be able to transfer like any other college student, because they can. No one is stopping them. They can transfer once without basketball recourse, and can transfer again (and again and again) if they are willing to sit for a year and still play basektball, if basketball means that much to them. And if it doesn't, they can transfer "just like any other student."

 

[ramluvr99]

Any thoughts as to whether this will be appealed?

they plan appealing

 

[VCU Heel]

But the idea that everyone should be free to leave whenever, no matter how many times, for whatever reason like say a bigger NIL bag or because the coach refused to promise the kid starter's minutes, and play immediately, I think it would be signing the death warrant for an already-ailing sport. It would not make CBB into the G League, because of course G league players can't just change teams because they get grumpy.

G League players have contracts with a salary and benefits. The arrangement binds both the teams to the players and the players to the teams. It’s an employer/employee relationship.

If colleges want their athletes bound to them, then they need to make them employees. They need to guarantee 4 year scholarships, a salary, and benefits. If not, then I don’t see why the players should be bound to their schools in any way.

 

[skramnewton]

I also hate being put in the position of defending the NCAA on any topic, because it is generally a bunch of morally bankrupt bureaucrats who are out only to protect their own nests. Anything they do is presumptively wrong to me.

But that's just it... that's the root of the issue lol no matter how you slice it, NCAAF & NCAAM athletes are professional athletes. Lucrative TV contract deals, prime time game times, the way athletes are marketed (even more so now with NIL), jersey sales, "star" status among fans, the fact people plan their days around games, etc. etc. etc. the ONLY difference is that they're technically "student-athletes" because the morally bankrupt bureaucrats said so decades ago to protect their bottom line. They've implemented specific restrictions (e.g. mandatory 1 or 3 years of play before entering the draft) to profit off the athletes as best they can. That's how they operate.

I'm sure you generally agree with that sentiment based on the rest of your post, but as Heel mentioned, athletes are the only ones currently bound to their university. To have a problem with unlimited transfers for whatever reason, is ignoring the underlying issue and narrative created by the NCAA. NCAAF and NCAAM aren't ailing sports they're both billion dollar industries they're not going anywhere. Unlimited transfers would create a more free market and vastly change the landscape, but it's far from a death warrant

 

[VCU Heel]

But that's just it... that's the root of the issue lol no matter how you slice it, NCAAF & NCAAM athletes are professional athletes. Lucrative TV contract deals, prime time game times, the way athletes are marketed (even more so now with NIL), jersey sales, "star" status among fans, the fact people plan their days around games, etc. etc. etc. the ONLY difference is that they're technically "student-athletes" because the morally bankrupt bureaucrats said so decades ago to protect their bottom line. They've implemented specific restrictions (e.g. mandatory 1 or 3 years of play before entering the draft) to profit off the athletes as best they can. That's how they operate.

I'm sure you generally agree with that sentiment based on the rest of your post, but as Heel mentioned, athletes are the only ones currently bound to their university. To have a problem with unlimited transfers for whatever reason, is ignoring the underlying issue and narrative created by the NCAA. NCAAF and NCAAM aren't ailing sports they're both billion dollar industries they're not going anywhere. Unlimited transfers would create a more free market and vastly change the landscape, but it's far from a death warrant

I agree, but have to correct you on one thing. The 1 and 3 year rules for basketball and football are NBA and NFL rules, not NCAA rules. The NBA and NFL have benefitted financially for decades by have a free minor league system and have forced athletes to go to college because there was no other developmental system available to get them to the professional leagues. Those leagues and their players’ organizations have been complicit in this.

 

[share the ball]

If colleges want their athletes bound to them, then they need to make them employees. They need to guarantee 4 year scholarships, a salary, and benefits. If not, then I don’t see why the players should be bound to their schools in any way.

curious is this view the same for the baseball team, cross country team, volleyball team and the golf team and all other sports that lose millions of dollars at most schools

football is the evil (not really evil) that allows the P5 to operate those non revenue sports without a bottom line of RED ink (so to speak)
basketball at 1/2 the D1 schools is a breakeven if not a slight money loser (adding more costs to them will likely mean the haves and have nots will see a further widening)

IMO following the approach of salaries, benefits etc would likely result in a FBS/FCS for basketball (though I am 100% an advocate of guaranteed 4 year scholarships to an individual on scholarship)

go Rams and coach Odom

 

[rammad90]

G League players have contracts with a salary and benefits. The arrangement binds both the teams to the players and the players to the teams. It’s an employer/employee relationship.

If colleges want their athletes bound to them, then they need to make them employees. They need to guarantee 4 year scholarships, a salary, and benefits. If not, then I don’t see why the players should be bound to their schools in any way.

Agreed! Moreover, if the NCAA indeed want continuity why not apply to all participants? Coaches under contract Administrators. We cannot in good conscientious state that the Coaches or Admin for that manner early termination clauses binds them to their university in any meaningful manner and certainly not in the way that the student athletes are currently bound. If they want to leave they leave and their new employer picks up the tab. There is no penalty of sitting out and yes sitting out does have a significant financial penalty as you never recoup that lost year.

We all know there are legal hurdles so we simply do what America does, we punish those who have the least bargaining power.

 

[skramnewton]

I agree, but have to correct you on one thing. The 1 and 3 year rules for basketball and football are NBA and NFL rules, not NCAA rules. The NBA and NFL have benefitted financially for decades by have a free minor league system and have forced athletes to go to college because there was no other developmental system available to get them to the professional leagues. Those leagues and their players’ organizations have been complicit in this.

You're right and IMO I think the 1 or 3 years a players spends in college is far more beneficial to the NCAA than the NFL or NBA. I view it as a partnership policy to, like you said, have the NCAA be a developmental league since the NFL/NBA will get the top talent regardless

 

[N Mollen]

But that's just it... that's the root of the issue lol no matter how you slice it, NCAAF & NCAAM athletes are professional athletes. Lucrative TV contract deals, prime time game times, the way athletes are marketed (even more so now with NIL), jersey sales, "star" status among fans, the fact people plan their days around games, etc. etc. etc. the ONLY difference is that they're technically "student-athletes" because the morally bankrupt bureaucrats said so decades ago to protect their bottom line. They've implemented specific restrictions (e.g. mandatory 1 or 3 years of play before entering the draft) to profit off the athletes as best they can. That's how they operate.

I'm sure you generally agree with that sentiment based on the rest of your post, but as Heel mentioned, athletes are the only ones currently bound to their university. To have a problem with unlimited transfers for whatever reason, is ignoring the underlying issue and narrative created by the NCAA. NCAAF and NCAAM aren't ailing sports they're both billion dollar industries they're not going anywhere. Unlimited transfers would create a more free market and vastly change the landscape, but it's far from a death warrant

Two things I disagree with. They aren't professional athletes because if they were they'd be bound to individual contracts and a collective bargaining agreement and would not have even the freedom of movement they have now.

And 2d, they are not "the only ones bound to the university." Every coach has a contract, and every contract has an early termination clause, and in every case of which I am aware of a coach jumping ship, the termination clause is activated and complied with. They pay a penalty to leave (although, it is true, the receiving school invariably reimburses).

When a kid leaves school #1 for school #2, the "penalty clause" of their letter of intent, which they signed in return for a scholarship, is that they sit out a year before transferring a second time.

I understand and respect the contrary argument. I suspect that if there were no restrictions on 2d (and 3d and 4th) time transfers, the distinction between college sports and the G league would evaporate and my interest with it.

 

[VCU Heel]

curious is this view the same for the baseball team, cross country team, volleyball team and the golf team and all other sports that lose millions of dollars at most schools

football is the evil (not really evil) that allows the P5 to operate those non revenue sports without a bottom line of RED ink (so to speak)
basketball at 1/2 the D1 schools is a breakeven if not a slight money loser (adding more costs to them will likely mean the haves and have nots will see a further widening

IMO following the approach of salaries, benefits etc would likely result in a FBS/FCS for basketball (though I am 100% an advocate of guaranteed 4 year scholarships to an individual on scholarship)

go Rams and coach Odom

If that split happens, then so be it. The possibility of that split happening isn’t a reason to keep players bound to their programs.

But the point of my post was that schools shouldn’t be able to have it both ways. If they don’t want to make athletes employees, then they shouldn’t have the power to force players to sit out when transferring. Eventually, the courts will probably tell them just that.

 

[ramluvr99]

 

[Mr X]

3 time transfer?

No idea

 

[RowdyPkunk]

3 time transfer?

No idea

That was my first instinct.... and/or the fact that when transferring from GW due to Mental Health.... instead of transferring closer to home he got even further away from home.

But then you have the Tez Walker (UNC) situation for football where technically Walker is a 2 time transfer.... BUT.... he didn't even get to play/suit up for a game at NC Central in 2020 because their season got cancelled due to Covid....... which is why all UNC fans are in a huge uproar because while "technically" hes a 2x transfer.... he literally never saw the field for even a second at NC Central.

 

[skramnewton]

That was my first instinct.... and/or the fact that when transferring from GW due to Mental Health.... instead of transferring closer to home he got even further away from home.

But then you have the Tez Walker (UNC) situation for football where technically Walker is a 2 time transfer.... BUT.... he didn't even get to play/suit up for a game at NC Central in 2020 because their season got cancelled due to Covid....... which is why all UNC fans are in a huge uproar because while "technically" hes a 2x transfer.... he literally never saw the field for even a second at NC Central.

Not to mention Walker transferred to UNC before the transfer rule was changed, which makes it even worse but the NCAA is gonna NCAA

 

[petie dink]

If that split happens, then so be it. The possibility of that split happening isn’t a reason to keep players bound to their programs.

But the point of my post was that schools shouldn’t be able to have it both ways. If they don’t want to make athletes employees, then they shouldn’t have the power to force players to sit out when transferring. Eventually, the courts will probably tell them just that.

FIFA requires the new club pay the former club a transfer fee. This puts a financial cost on making a club change without penalizing the player.