Jan 17, 2010
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We constantly...and I mean constantly bump the will Wade and shaka smart threads all the time.

Both individuals left with 1000 times more acrimony from this forum than MSS at the time of their departure. One of whom is still despised 1000 times more to this day.

Why is a VCU former player's thread..an actually graduate from VCU treated with more disdain than will wade? Because one of his relatives was a jerk?

Gimme me a break.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, just making a suggestion. Go ahead and die on this hill discussing Texas Tech basketball.
 
May 4, 2012
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I think it just comes down to would you rather spend more time on the bench for a team that may well make a run or be on the court for a team that may struggle.

Either way, he's going to Eastern Europe after next season if he wants to continue to play.
time will tell on his minutes but he will be a better European player as a result.
 

TampaKAP

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Apr 21, 2009
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And why does doughty get more respect than MSS?
My opinion. First let me say that I have zero ill will for MSS and his decision. The same way I commended WW when he left because I thought the long term benefit, I feel the same way for MSS. I feel the team will be better next year with him gone and not because I think he is a bad player. I just think it allows us to go into the "future is now" mode one year earlier and without competing priorities. It would have been hard for me to see how the team would have made it into the second weekend AND MSS focus on improving what was most important to his future as I don't think the two needs aligned.

Now for your question of why Samir gets more "perceived" respect.
  1. MSS chose to leave. Samir didn't have a choice.People recognize the talent level of both because if MSS wasn't talented, this thread would have 25 or less pages of discussion
  2. Yes there are people who hold both players accountable for their relatives. Atleast through the end of last season, Samir's mom was still a strong supporter of VCU, This year hasn't happened so I don't know if her support will continue. on a side note, i'd be willing to bet that if Samir returns to Philly, you will be just as likely to find him in Richmond as you will in Auburn, AL


Unrelated to this but since I saw it, I think it would be a huge mistake for machine gun Mac to go to TT. He is much more suited for Auburn
 

duncanlamb

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Apr 22, 2009
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My opinion. First let me say that I have zero ill will for MSS and his decision. The same way I commended WW when he left because I thought the long term benefit, I feel the same way for MSS. I feel the team will be better next year with him gone and not because I think he is a bad player. I just think it allows us to go into the "future is now" mode one year earlier and without competing priorities. It would have been hard for me to see how the team would have made it into the second weekend AND MSS focus on improving what was most important to his future as I don't think the two needs aligned.

Now for your question of why Samir gets more "perceived" respect.
  1. MSS chose to leave. Samir didn't have a choice.People recognize the talent level of both because if MSS wasn't talented, this thread would have 25 or less pages of discussion
  2. Yes there are people who hold both players accountable for their relatives. Atleast through the end of last season, Samir's mom was still a strong supporter of VCU, This year hasn't happened so I don't know if her support will continue. on a side note, i'd be willing to bet that if Samir returns to Philly, you will be just as likely to find him in Richmond as you will in Auburn, AL


Unrelated to this but since I saw it, I think it would be a huge mistake for machine gun Mac to go to TT. He is much more suited for Auburn
Good explanation.
 

GuardTheArc

Top Member
Dec 4, 2014
635
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My opinion. First let me say that I have zero ill will for MSS and his decision. The same way I commended WW when he left because I thought the long term benefit, I feel the same way for MSS. I feel the team will be better next year with him gone and not because I think he is a bad player. I just think it allows us to go into the "future is now" mode one year earlier and without competing priorities. It would have been hard for me to see how the team would have made it into the second weekend AND MSS focus on improving what was most important to his future as I don't think the two needs aligned.
1) Our win probability with MSS in 2020-21 was probably around 18.5 games. With his replacement, Stockard, it probably dips to 17.5. (24+ wins is generally the non-P6 at-large benchmark). And we used our valued/final #13 scholly to do so..........and maybe even, unfathomably, used two yrs of a scholly for one yr of a "proven" 3 ppg role player (who "needs a full yr to learn our system" anyway, as so many say about newcomers).
2) If Ward isn't ready to start as a soph (like Reddic was), something is amiss with the staff/strength and conditioning. If we mess around with Ward (minutes/role), he may bolt (like Touyo). Ward's a keeper (could be a Reddic). Get him engaged early/often.
3) Wonder how MBJ and Hason feel about the Stockard pickup (privately they were probably psyched when MSS bolted - i.e. a lot more expected run). Douglas, Williams, and Watkins would've got more run too.
4) We have unquestionably the weakest group of upperclassmen in VCU basketball history right now. 4 unproven juniors/seniors. No established returning upperclassmen starters. Our chance of dancing via an at-large in 2020-21 is probably about 2-3%.
5) Real "future is now" mode would be Ward, MBJ, Watkins, Bones, Clark - or something to that affect (guaranteeing they all start, play, and develop chemistry together for potentially 3 yrs - a la Lamb, Duncan, Schlegel, Brown, a la Richmond Spiders 2018-20, a la Dayton Flyers Scoochie, Pollard, Davis, Pierre).
6) Douglas and Stockard are limited; role players at best, not starters, at this stage of their careers. They should come off the pine and make way for the new regime.......as should Curry/Williams (unless proven otherwise "in games, not practice"). Time to pivot to the frosh/sophs and look to 2021-22 as a realistic year to "make our move" back to relevance (with Ward - Jr, MBJ - soph, Watkins - soph, Bones - Jr, Clark - Jr)........all with a yr together under their belt.
7) Frosh/sophs can start, excel, and have an impact on dancing..........see JPR, BA Walker, Brad Burgess, Sanders, Maynor, Alie-Cox, Graham, Reddic, George, etc.
8) Mike has job security (he's already earned about $5M in the last 3 yrs at VCU with another $5-7M coming, minimum)..........no need to try to "patch together" an 18-20 win team this season. Play the kids. It'll pay big dividends in '22 and '23.
9) Mike's preference for starting certain upperclassmen has hurt him in previous seasons. Kids need to be slotted into roles that fit their natural skill sets/level and their overall mentality. He tried to jam senior JW into a starting PG role in 2017-18 (JW was backup material only) and it showed. Mike tried to shoehorn senior Kel into a starter role last yr and it was never a fit (no boards, no 3-pt threat, 6'4" kid trying to battle down low at times, etc); kid never had the confidence or overall game to be a starter. Slot kids into roles that best fit their personality/progression. Douglas/Stockard = backups, bouncers, bruisers, foul-givers, enforcers, pick-setters, etc. Curry = maybe Brandenberg (at best).....swiss army knife, off the bench. If Vince can't separate himself from Watkins/McAllister/etc early on, bring him off the pine as a sixth man (a la James Harden with the Thunder).
 
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92VCUpikapp

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Dec 21, 2010
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Rewatched the GW game on my DVR last night. Ward and Douglas will easily replace the 10 boards and 6 points MSS contributed to that ass kicking to mighty GW.

Toro shut MSS down in that game with 7 rebounds and 10 point in just 18 minutes of play, vs the 6 points MSS put up in 27 minutes.
 

TampaKAP

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Apr 21, 2009
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1) Our win probability with MSS in 2020-21 was probably around 18.5 games. With his replacement, Stockard, it probably dips to 17.5. (24+ wins is generally the non-P6 at-large benchmark). And we used our valued/final #13 scholly to do so..........and maybe even, unfathomably, used two yrs of a scholly for one yr of a "proven" 3 ppg role player (who "needs a full yr to learn our system" anyway, as so many say about newcomers).
2) If Ward isn't ready to start as a soph (like Reddic was), something is amiss with the staff/strength and conditioning. If we mess around with Ward (minutes/role), he may bolt (like Touyo). Ward's a keeper (could be a Reddic). Get him engaged early/often.
3) Wonder how MBJ and Hason feel about the Stockard pickup (privately they were probably psyched when MSS bolted - i.e. a lot more expected run). Douglas, Williams, and Watkins would've got more run too.
4) We have unquestionably the weakest group of upperclassmen in VCU basketball history right now. 4 unproven juniors/seniors. No established returning upperclassmen starters. Our chance of dancing via an at-large in 2020-21 is probably about 2-3%.
5) Real "future is now" mode would be Ward, MBJ, Watkins, Bones, Clark - or something to that affect (guaranteeing they all start, play, and develop chemistry together for potentially 3 yrs - a la Lamb, Duncan, Schlegel, Brown, a la Richmond Spiders 2018-20, a la Dayton Flyers Scoochie, Pollard, Davis, Pierre).
6) Douglas and Stockard are limited; role players at best, not starters, at this stage of their careers. They should come off the pine and make way for the new regime.......as should Curry/Williams (unless proven otherwise "in games, not practice"). Time to pivot to the frosh/sophs and look to 2021-22 as a realistic year to "make our move" back to relevance (with Ward - Jr, MBJ - soph, Watkins - soph, Bones - Jr, Clark - Jr)........all with a yr together under their belt.
7) Frosh/sophs can start, excel, and have an impact on dancing..........see JPR, BA Walker, Brad Burgess, Sanders, Maynor, Alie-Cox, Graham, Reddic, George, etc.
8) Mike has job security (he's already earned about $5M in the last 3 yrs at VCU with another $5-7M coming, minimum)..........no need to try to "patch together" an 18-20 win team this season. Play the kids. It'll pay big dividends in '22 and '23.
9) Mike's preference for starting upperclassmen has hurt him in previous seasons. Kids need to be slotted into roles that fit their natural skill sets/level and their overall mentality. He tried to jam senior JW into a starting PG role in 2017-18 (JW was backup material only) and it showed. Mike tried to shoehorn senior Kel into a starter role last yr and it was never a fit (no boards, no 3-pt threat, 6'4" kid trying to battle down low at times, etc); kid never had the confidence or overall game to be a starter. Slot kids into roles that best fit their personality/progression. Douglas/Stockard = backups, bouncers, bruisers, foul-givers, enforcers, pick-setters, etc. Curry = maybe Brandenberg (at best).....swiss army knife, off the bench. If Vince can't separate himself from Watkins/McAllister/etc early on, bring him off the pine as a sixth man (a la James Harden with the Thunder).
No argument from me
 
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mrgeode

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Mar 22, 2013
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I'd really, really like to see a healthy Vince but that may just not happen at this point. Starter or no, he seems to fit the jack of all trades role better than KeShawn. There's certainly value in being an energy guy good in the open court, hopefully Mr Curry can make some hay there.
 

rammad90

Top Member
Jan 19, 2010
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Play for whoever you like, but if you're not in a vcu jersey I'm not going to celebrate it.
So you dont celebrate Troy, and Treveon's success? How about Bri? If MSS is a graduate and he makes it to the next level is he not to be celebrated?

Fwiw, there is difference between celebrating his success and pouting/sulking/hating because he's gone. For me, and you are free to do as you please, if the guy does well I'd be happy for him. He helped us win some games the last two years and I appreciate that. He is now with the projected # 9 team and projected to be a starter.

I really like the two big guys we brought in and thank we will be fine. The last thing we needed was a guy trying to get his NBA shine on.