Massive deficits

Ramdog

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We are just an average team right now. We are 11-10 in our last 21 games; 17-12 in the last 29, if you go back to the A-10 tournament last season. The better teams on our schedule are beating us up.
Sorry to say it doesn’t appear just schematic..both approach and personnel are issues
 
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We are just an average team right now. We are 11-10 in our last 21 games; 17-12 in the last 29, if you go back to the A-10 tournament last season. The better teams on our schedule are beating us up.
I think when you look at the scores against better teams, the defense doesn’t hold up, even though we like to paint ourselves as a great defensive team.
 
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VCU85

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We are just an average team right now. We are 11-10 in our last 21 games; 17-12 in the last 29, if you go back to the A-10 tournament last season. The better teams on our schedule are beating us up.
Average ? They've lost by an average of 9-10 in the last 4 games, been down by more than 20 in all of those losses, and one of those losses was to a team, at home, with 2 conference wins...

Average ?

I'm offering you my Websters dictionary for a day.
 
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HBK

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Average ? They've lost by an average of 9-10 in the last 4 games, been down by more than 20 in all of those losses, and one of those losses was to a team, at home, with 2 conference wins...

Average ?

I'm offering you my Websters dictionary for a day.
To me, a .500 record (11-10 in last 21 games) is average.
 

Natty

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Out of curiosity, what would be your solution? Shorter bench, different lineups, different defense, allowing players to play early in the first half with 2 fouls?
Two main adjustments I'd make...

Go Big, play inside-out

To me the most promising thing I saw out of this team this year has been what we've done with the two-big lineups. Because our offense is just sooooo inconsistent, I'd go full rock fight mode and try to have as much MSS/Corey, Corey/Has and Has/MSS as possible (LOTS of that actually). Just seeing what those lineups did when they were in and how much better we were with them (and crunched the numbers to show my work on that), I'd have to roll with that, which I know runs counter to havoc/spread the floor mentality I think Rhoades wants, but I just think it gives us the best shot at winning this year against this A-10.

Play the numbers (/shorten the bench)
If you look at the advanced numbers, we're playing a lot of guys together that aren't efficient at all...and playing them together A LOT. That's spitting in the face of facts, in my opinion, which is a recipe for exactly what we've seen as of late. Simms and Curry check in at fifth and eighth in minutes averaged on this team but 9th and 13th in overall box plus/minus and 10th and 11th in player efficiency rating. I'd dial those minutes back considerably.
 

VCU85

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To me, a .500 record (11-10 in last 21 games) is average.
Gotcha, but that's a bit of a deceptive perception IMO. They've lost their last 4 to set that record. Had they won their last 4 to get to that record I'd argue those are very different measures of average, good or bad. I'm focussing on the current trajectory of the team, which is definitely not average, again just my opinion.

Win the last 2, make some noise in the A-10 Brooklyn tourney, and average creeps back in to the picture. As it looks now horrible is the only descriptor looming on the horizon. I really hate stating that. I don't wanna be one of those fans, but I can't type anything different with a straight face right now.
 

SWV

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Two main adjustments I'd make...

Go Big, play inside-out

To me the most promising thing I saw out of this team this year has been what we've done with the two-big lineups. Because our offense is just sooooo inconsistent, I'd go full rock fight mode and try to have as much MSS/Corey, Corey/Has and Has/MSS as possible (LOTS of that actually). Just seeing what those lineups did when they were in and how much better we were with them (and crunched the numbers to show my work on that), I'd have to roll with that, which I know runs counter to havoc/spread the floor mentality I think Rhoades wants, but I just think it gives us the best shot at winning this year against this A-10.

Play the numbers (/shorten the bench)
If you look at the advanced numbers, we're playing a lot of guys together that aren't efficient at all...and playing them together A LOT. That's spitting in the face of facts, in my opinion, which is a recipe for exactly what we've seen as of late. Simms and Curry check in at fifth and eighth in minutes averaged on this team but 9th and 13th in overall box plus/minus and 10th and 11th in player efficiency rating. I'd dial those minutes back considerably.
So why doesn’t the coaching staff play the numbers? I don’t understand that when the numbers are right there and support what you say. 🤦‍♀️
 

HBK

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Sorry to say it doesn’t appear just schematic..both approach and personnel are issues
That’s what I’ve been saying to folks like CRF and others who just want to blame the coach and schemes. Let me be clear: coaches do deserve some blame for his team’s underperformance over the course of a season. Rhoades isn’t perfect and some of this is on him. HOWEVER, the players must accept some level of culpability as well. Our offense generates lots of open looks and driving lanes. That we miss those shots or don’t finish at the rim is on the players. That we don’t follow scouting reports or don’t fight through screens, or don’t communicate on defense is on the players.

In another thread, I mentioned the one glaring thing I have seen this year: as a group our seniors just aren’t as talented or athletic as the top players from the better teams we play. Other than Jenkins, who of our upperclassmen was highly rated coming out of high school? None that I know of, but MSS for example, has worked his butt off to improve to the point that he is an all A-10 caliber player. The good news is that this current group of freshmen and next year’s group are more talented and athletic, as a group, than our current upperclassmen.

Let me say unequivocally that I genuinely love all of our players, espe the upperclassmen. They are good kids who embody all that is right with college athletics. I’m glad they are here at VCU, and they will leave with a college degree.
 

Natty

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So why doesn’t the coaching staff play the numbers? I don’t understand that when the numbers are right there and support what you say. 🤦‍♀️
I asked him about this after the Dayton loss in the post-game. In short he said they are wrestling with this situation, but he wants to have his senior's backs, not quit on them, etc, which I get. I just think overall they need to tighten everything up and make a few minor changes. Tighten up the rotation, tighten the amount of freedom guys have.

Starts here at about 8:40

 

SWV

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I asked him about this after the Dayton loss in the post-game. In short he said they are wrestling with this situation, but he wants to have his senior's backs, not quit on them, etc, which I get. I just think overall they need to tighten everything up and make a few minor changes. Tighten up the rotation, tighten the amount of freedom guys have.

Starts here at about 8:40

Wow. Okay. People were not happy overall with how Wade did things, but he did love and use the analytics.
 
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VCU85

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I asked him about this after the Dayton loss in the post-game. In short he said they are wrestling with this situation, but he wants to have his senior's backs, not quit on them, etc, which I get. I just think overall they need to tighten everything up and make a few minor changes. Tighten up the rotation, tighten the amount of freedom guys have.

Starts here at about 8:40

Just completely spitballin' here but, reading the above, could it be he said to the rising seniors, Stay here, and you'll play, I won't throw you over for my new guys ?

He came here, and needed to contain a potential complete loss of talent. I would respect that promise, even if it meant some pain in the meantime.
 
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Natty

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Wow. Okay. People were not happy overall with how Wade did things, but he did love and use the analytics.
On that note, LSU currently has the top SEC offense...BUT, is dead last in SEC defense (and just a misssserable defense at that). So obviously using analytics doesn't always solve the problem, otherwise I'm sure Wade would have the D fixed. The difference between LSU and VCU however, is he has figured out a way to have the Tigers (9-4 in SEC play) tied for second in the conference (and a much tougher conference) whereas we are sitting at eighth in the A-10 at 7-7. There are a number of interesting interviews from Wade about LSU's recent struggles. For all his warts, as a fan/media member Wade is one of the more interesting interviews to watch because he does a good job of really giving you the truth and the reality of what's going on with his team. I think Rhoades has done a good job of giving media honest answers as well. I thought he opened up a bit when I asked him those questions the other night.
 

AlienAiden

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I asked him about this after the Dayton loss in the post-game. In short he said they are wrestling with this situation, but he wants to have his senior's backs, not quit on them, etc, which I get. I just think overall they need to tighten everything up and make a few minor changes. Tighten up the rotation, tighten the amount of freedom guys have.

Starts here at about 8:40

Not many if any teams go 12 deep. The idea of going 12 deep is that the players are expending so much energy that shift changes are needed and that it tires the other team out. I guess playing a deep line-up would be needed if they employ the diamond press for the entire game but that is not the case. The constant rotations are causing issues with fluidity. Some like to say, well it is great because if you come to VCU you will play. The flip side of it is that it can cause dissension because the more efficient payers might wonder why they are being subbed out. And on the flip flip side if players don't get off the bench they question their role in the future. It is a hairy issue. It has always been that way. I certainly would rather play the most efficient players heavy minutes. Most teams play an 8 man rotation because it is effective and things go haywire if you do go down the bench too far. I know it is tough for a coach because you want to play guys but oh man it is an issue. All that being said, I am not sure with the roster that it would be the end all and be all to pare down the line-up. i just know that most teams get by with going 8 or 9 deep at the most.
 

Natty

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Not many if any teams go 12 deep. The idea of going 12 deep is that the players are expending so much energy that shift changes are needed and that it tires the other team out. I guess playing a deep line-up would be needed if they employ the diamond press for the entire game but that is not the case. The constant rotations are causing issues with fluidity. Some like to say, well it is great because if you come to VCU you will play. The flip side of it is that it can cause dissension because the more efficient payers might wonder why they are being subbed out. And on the flip flip side if players don't get off the bench they question their role in the future. It is a hairy issue. It has always been that way. I certainly would rather played the most efficient players heavy minutes. Most teams play an 8 man rotation because it is effective and it things go haywire if you do go down the bench too far. I know it is tough for a coach because you want to play guys but man it is an issue. All that being said, I am not sure with the roster that it would be the end all and be all to pare down the line-up. i just know that most teams get by with going 8 or 9 deep at the most.
Yeah, I think the army thing has been hurting. For me, it just comes down to two things 1) the "cumulative effect" is just not happening. When Briante Weber and Darius Theus are out there swarming you all game...perhaps, but that ain't happening this year and 2) When you go reeeeally deep you're just giving your inefficiency more time to hurt your own team.

At the end of the day this is about putting up more points on the board than your opponent. SLU played four guys 30 or more minutes last night: French, Collins, Goodwin and Perkins...then played Hargrove the fifth most minutes at 25. Four of those players are their four most efficient players via player efficiency rating. Collins is the outlier there, but is basically their only "true point guard". He had a career-high 12 assists...because of course he would against us.
 

AlienAiden

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Yeah, I think the army thing has been hurting. For me, it just comes down to two things 1) the "cumulative effect" is just not happening. When Briante Weber and Darius Theus are out there swarming you all game...perhaps, but that ain't happening this year and 2) When you go reeeeally deep you're just giving your inefficiency more time to hurt your own team.

At the end of the day this is about putting up more points on the board than your opponent. SLU played four guys 30 or more minutes last night: French, Collins, Goodwin and Perkins...then played Hargrove the fifth most minutes at 25. Four of those players are their four most efficient players via player efficiency rating. Collins is the outlier there, but is basically their only "true point guard". He had a career-high 12 assists...because of course he would against us.
I understand that coach wants to go deep but it can really cause issues with cohesiveness. I would have to look again but I thought they were fine with Bones at the beginning. I think he took a runner that coach did not like and he was pulled. He did not enter the game again until about the 6 or 7 minute mark. I am just not a fan of some of the combos. Against good teams that play solid players heavy minutes it becomes a real mismatch at times.