News New Downtown Arena

Apr 28, 2009
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This is great in theory, unfortunately it's not really how it works in the real world. Slow and steady when it comes to city growth is usually more a recipe for disaster than it is for success.

I do large scale development all over the country and I can say that Richmond's name is, unfortunately, mud. The current the identity that Richmond and the surrounding counties have established is not a great one for growth. That in and of itself isn't a problem if Richmond wants to stay small. If it doesn't though, that attitude needs to change and quickly. Company's want to be there because it's a top 50 MSA in terms of population, but the loathe to do so because of the anti-development attitude that's so pervasive in the region.
YEAH I believe the Richmond metro area is ranked around 44 or 45. As someone who deals with commercial real estate I’m not sure where you are getting your data . The Richmond metro are is experiencing a significant amount of developments. https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/202-richmond/
 
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BracketForecast

Top Member
May 9, 2011
4,583
5,356
Some nuance:

  • Richmond City government has mismanaged a bunch of projects in the past.
  • Richmond has a history of corruption in city government.
  • Richmond schools are mostly a mess of epic proportions.
  • 6th Street Marketplace was built at the peak of urban decline. All the demand in the 90's, locally and nationally, was in the suburbs.
  • Sometime during the mid aughts, things started turning around in the city. Crime dropped and the population started to grow slowly, then rapidly.
  • Over the past decade, Richmond is the fastest growing locality in the region, despite being having little to no undeveloped land.
  • Richmond City is one of the top cities in the country for in-migration among millenials.
  • Richmond City is growing at a rate 2x faster than the United States.
  • Incomes, education levels, jobs, and growth are all above national averages in the metro area.
Look, if you don't feel like this specific project is the right one, that's fine. But all the arguments of "Richmond is behind the times, this city is failure, no one wants to live here, businesses don't want to be here" are tired and frankly stupid.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
16,598
27,138
Some nuance:

  • Richmond City government has mismanaged a bunch of projects in the past.
  • Richmond has a history of corruption in city government.
  • Richmond schools are mostly a mess of epic proportions.
  • 6th Street Marketplace was built at the peak of urban decline. All the demand in the 90's, locally and nationally, was in the suburbs.
  • Sometime during the mid aughts, things started turning around in the city. Crime dropped and the population started to grow slowly, then rapidly.
  • Over the past decade, Richmond is the fastest growing locality in the region, despite being having little to no undeveloped land.
  • Richmond City is one of the top cities in the country for in-migration among millenials.
  • Richmond City is growing at a rate 2x faster than the United States.
  • Incomes, education levels, jobs, and growth are all above national averages in the metro area.
Look, if you don't feel like this specific project is the right one, that's fine. But all the arguments of "Richmond is behind the times, this city is failure, no one wants to live here, businesses don't want to be here" are tired and frankly stupid.
Not much nuance if you're just throwing out anecdotes.
 

squid1622

Top Member
Mar 5, 2012
372
692
Thanks for posting. I just couldn't tell where the graph came from. I'm hesitant on this for a couple of reasons, namely the fact that they won't run the census till next year so at best these are inaccurate references. Also, percentage change is usually a great, eye popping figure in most places however percentages get skewed when you're talking about lower numbers (i.e. 1% in NYC is equal to roughly 14% in Richmond MSA). Obviously higher numbers are better because it speaks to more people relative to where the city is currently, but may not tell the most accurate tale without the context of real numbers.

YEAH I believe the Richmond metro area is ranked around 44 or 45. As some who deals with commercial real estate I’m not sure where you are getting your data . The Richmond metro are is experiencing a significant amount of developments. https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/202-richmond/
Here's what your getting though... You're getting development dominated by VCU, apartment developers, and groups looking at "mixed use" which is the new hot trendy item in real estate. What you're not getting new large business headquarters to replace what was lost in the last recession. Those with size that can inject loads of capital and bodies in to cities to make them grow.

My data to date has been going to the city and community meetings and hearing the absolute lunacy that comes out and then watching the elected officials cave to it. I don't necessarily have the raw data, more the conversations from other business owners who have tried to do deals in the area and been shut down. Even Capitol One and Carmax both moved outside the technical Richmond MSA because of how much easier Goochland was to deal with than Henrico or Richmond.
 

squid1622

Top Member
Mar 5, 2012
372
692
Some nuance:

  • Richmond City government has mismanaged a bunch of projects in the past.
  • Richmond has a history of corruption in city government.
  • Richmond schools are mostly a mess of epic proportions.
  • 6th Street Marketplace was built at the peak of urban decline. All the demand in the 90's, locally and nationally, was in the suburbs.
  • Sometime during the mid aughts, things started turning around in the city. Crime dropped and the population started to grow slowly, then rapidly.
  • Over the past decade, Richmond is the fastest growing locality in the region, despite being having little to no undeveloped land.
  • Richmond City is one of the top cities in the country for in-migration among millenials.
  • Richmond City is growing at a rate 2x faster than the United States.
  • Incomes, education levels, jobs, and growth are all above national averages in the metro area.
Look, if you don't feel like this specific project is the right one, that's fine. But all the arguments of "Richmond is behind the times, this city is failure, no one wants to live here, businesses don't want to be here" are tired and frankly stupid.
The argument I'm making isn't that businesses don't want to be here, but that they in fact do. The Richmond MSA as a whole just makes it so unbelievably painful that it's easier for them to go elsewhere.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
16,598
27,138
You're correct, money doesn't solve school issues. This is a money (physical infrastructure) AND a management issue. The management of Richmond d city schools has been abysmal. The effort to get this new project off the ground surpasses what they've tried to do with schools.

Well since 6th street and Main st. station they didn't tackle many. Redskins Training ? I'm not sure what they thought was gonna happen with that little nugget. The canal walk was the last one. It hasn't done that much. The new pulse system for rapid transit is bizarre.

What city project has turned a profit in any time frame ?

Do we need a coliseum like venue ?? sure, but who's really going to pay for it ? I do not believe private sector dollars are going to be put at risk by anyone with sense enough to accumulate that much money for a venue with no full time tenant. VCU has a basketball arena on campus and that show;d never change, unless VCU somehow expands all the way down to Navy hill and MVC doesn't count, undergrad facilities.
1) I read somewhere that the Redskins training facility will be paid off by 2023 and though it hasn't met financial projections that were presented when the proposal was shared with the city council, the financial loss isn't nearing as catastrophic as people make it out to be. I also read if the Redskins leave the city would probably be able to generate more revenue from the facility than they get currently. So I wouldn't close the book on that venture yet, though like I said it always seemed like a bad idea to me. So I'll give you that one, though, you should also concede that the person behind that project is no longer in office.

2) With the trail now open the canal walk is getting way more use than it ever had.

3) The Pulse so far has exceeded ridership projections.

If turning a profit is the only metric you use to evaluate the success of a project I'm not sure what to say to you. I don't see how the Capital Trail is generating much revenue but by most accounts people consider it to be wildly successful. As others have said, improving the quality of life and making the area a more desirable place to live has to be considered.
 

BracketForecast

Top Member
May 9, 2011
4,583
5,356
You made nine points. That chart addressed one.
You want receipts for every single point? Man I love RamNation but I'm too busy for that. :lol:
Also, I support the project. Was just trying to list the pros and cons that give context rather than boilerplate talking points for or against.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
16,598
27,138
You want receipts for every single point? Man I love RamNation but I'm too busy for that. :lol:
Also, I support the project. Was just trying to list the pros and cons that give context rather than boilerplate talking points for or against.
No worries. You just threw me off with the nuance comment. Obviously I support it too.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
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Apr 28, 2009
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Thanks for posting. I just couldn't tell where the graph came from. I'm hesitant on this for a couple of reasons, namely the fact that they won't run the census till next year so at best these are inaccurate references. Also, percentage change is usually a great, eye popping figure in most places however percentages get skewed when you're talking about lower numbers (i.e. 1% in NYC is equal to roughly 14% in Richmond MSA). Obviously higher numbers are better because it speaks to more people relative to where the city is currently, but may not tell the most accurate tale without the context of real numbers.


Here's what your getting though... You're getting development dominated by VCU, apartment developers, and groups looking at "mixed use" which is the new hot trendy item in real estate. What you're not getting new large business headquarters to replace what was lost in the last recession. Those with size that can inject loads of capital and bodies in to cities to make them grow. As far as Capital One goes they just opens a renovated building to serve a a business incubator right next to Bottoms Up Pizza.You are just wrong.

My data to date has been going to the city and community meetings and hearing the absolute lunacy that comes out and then watching the elected officials cave to it. I don't necessarily have the raw data, more the conversations from other business owners who have tried to do deals in the area and been shut down. Even Capitol One and Carmax both moved outside the technical Richmond MSA because of how much easier Goochland was to deal with than Henrico or Richmond.
Wrong and wrong....Carmax just put a office downtown at the old hat factory....Costar now has 700 employees downtown...They are getting ready to build another part to the biotech park downtown...and the list goes on...If you are a developer as you say then you would know these facts not just going off of heresay....and Goochland is part of the Richmond CMSA...please just stop being a hater...
 
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Mar 1, 2015
974
1,388
Thanks for posting. I just couldn't tell where the graph came from. I'm hesitant on this for a couple of reasons, namely the fact that they won't run the census till next year so at best these are inaccurate references. Also, percentage change is usually a great, eye popping figure in most places however percentages get skewed when you're talking about lower numbers (i.e. 1% in NYC is equal to roughly 14% in Richmond MSA). Obviously higher numbers are better because it speaks to more people relative to where the city is currently, but may not tell the most accurate tale without the context of real numbers.


Here's what your getting though... You're getting development dominated by VCU, apartment developers, and groups looking at "mixed use" which is the new hot trendy item in real estate. What you're not getting new large business headquarters to replace what was lost in the last recession. Those with size that can inject loads of capital and bodies in to cities to make them grow.

My data to date has been going to the city and community meetings and hearing the absolute lunacy that comes out and then watching the elected officials cave to it. I don't necessarily have the raw data, more the conversations from other business owners who have tried to do deals in the area and been shut down. Even Capitol One and Carmax both moved outside the technical Richmond MSA because of how much easier Goochland was to deal with than Henrico or Richmond.
It’s been a few years since I was researching it, but Goochlands Utility Service District was struggling to make interest only payments and not budgeting for future maintenance. They were taking a real bath on it. Don’t mistake easy for desperate.