Off topic: Something needs to be done about NIL

[myrtlebeachramfan]

Its nothing personal, its just business.

SOAPBOX Moment: I think this is the problem IN ALL THINGS CONCERNING MONEY nowadays. an ethical line in the sand has been erased. Teamwork/Devotion & Commitment has been replaced and this blanket statement has crept in. Unfortunately, just like anything, once the floodgates have opened it becomes very difficult to stop.

Athletes are paid, I get it. But.....
Now that it has crept into college sports, where is its next stop? High school athletes / FAMILY disputes ( would you throw a family member under the preverbal bus for the right price), When the "personal" exits the conversation then goes the word "trust" and "respect"

What does that teach us?
What world do we then live in?



Sorry, Soapbox moment over.

 

[Ululating Daddy]

Honestly, its a waiting game and not one that we will have to wait too long on. No one is giving NIL money out of the goodness of their heart. Companies are doing it out of there marketing budget(Still think the A/C company signing Decoldest Crawford is the best one) and if they don't get customers, they will revert to more traditional advertising. The Alumni groups throwing large sums of money again are not doing it because they "like" the kids. As harsh as it sounds, they are just looking to "buy" kids and once they don't get the return on there money they hoped for, that money will go elsewhere. The current Wild Wild West of NIL is not sustainable in any world

I hope you're right. I think the NIL money coming from businesses will adjust, as you say, based on return on the advertising investment. But I think the alumni group money will just go to other kids. Really, they're now free agents without the ability to negotiate a multi-year contract. Play up to your contract value, or go elsewhere next year.

 

[BaNgMyPrOgRaM]

I can't imagine an agent making multi-years contract when a player can use the portal and go to a diff school.

 

[SteveMM]

There needs to be some sort of cap or some sort of regulation on the NIL. I’m all for players earning money but there has to be a way to regulate it. Same with the transfer portal.

I completely 100% agree with both of these thoughts, but with the cap I just don't know how it would work. The problem with it is that supposedly the school isn't paying the players. NIL is, of course, endorsement money. I just don't know how you cap that.

Regarding the transfer portal, this HAS to be buttoned down at least a little. Teams spend time and effort developing a player, and then the player can just up and leave, and then do it again to the next school? There have to be limits.

And then, of course, you have both of these working together, when schools will use the NIL to lure players away. Read also: Hason Ward, who I hope is enjoying his money because he sure isn't playing much.

 

[WillWeaverRVA]

I can't imagine an agent making multi-years contract when a player can use the portal and go to a diff school.

Depending on the deal, some NIL deals can follow players if they transfer, so they basically can sign multi-year contracts.

 

[BaNgMyPrOgRaM]

Your branding the player and not the school in other words. I guess. Maybe moreso football than hoops I imagine/

 

[WestEndEd]

"The original idea of amateurism in sport (or “physical culture”) was developed in 19th-century England as a means of preventing the working classes from competing against the aristocracy. The essence of amateurism is such that amateur sport participants engage largely or entirely without remuneration."

The very idea of amateurism is totally antidemocratic.

It was invented by snotty rich people, who had inherited wealth.
They were tired of losing archery coemptions to soldiers, and hunting contests to game keepers.
These were the same people who expected "tradesmen" to enter the house from the rear and had no respect for people who worked.

IF anyone at VCU had a clue, they would do all they could to promote the kids NIL deals, and set every kid up with a low overhead NIL deal.
Honestly, I'd totally chip in a hundie to David Shriver if he had a NIL.

We should be having fund raisers for recruits that are on the fence.
The best way we can help recruit is to get a reputation as a generous fan base that supports anyone who produces, even one season transfers.

The only thing i worry about for NILs is, how much money actually goes to the kids?
I don't really want to put any money in the hands of T shirt printers.
Maybe we could get some one to figure out the lowest cost way to sell NFTs, not because I want an NFT but because that seems like a way to get 99% of the money into the kids hands.

With all the hours or practice, and travel to miss class, the value of the scholarship is greatly eroded.
So with that in mind, I think kids should be able to go back to school after they use up eligibility to finish degrees. (For free)

 

[WestEndEd]

I completely 100% agree with both of these thoughts, but with the cap I just don't know how it would work. The problem with it is that supposedly the school isn't paying the players. NIL is, of course, endorsement money. I just don't know how you cap that.

Regarding the transfer portal, this HAS to be buttoned down at least a little. Teams spend time and effort developing a player, and then the player can just up and leave, and then do it again to the next school? There have to be limits.

And then, of course, you have both of these working together, when schools will use the NIL to lure players away. Read also: Hason Ward, who I hope is enjoying his money because he sure isn't playing much.

Respectfully, I disagree so hard.
How many kids got screwed over when coaches moved on?
How many coaches abused their power by nixing kids transfers for petty reasons?
The answer is "a lot".
Teams spend time and effort coaching kids up? Coach them well enough, give them an opportunity, and they will stay.
How many kids has VCU shipped out to lower schools, I swear every kid who couldn't get minutes here went to Campbell College for a few years.
Why shouldn't kids control their own fates?

Here's another thought: who is doing more for the program, someone who drops 25k on the "Shield Society" or someone putting 25k into a hot prospects NIL? Would 25k have gotten Hassan Ward to stay?
The AD better start taking care of big NIL donors if we want to stay relevant and stop getting poached so much.

 

[SteveMM]

Respectfully, I disagree so hard.
How many kids got screwed over when coaches moved on?
How many coaches abused their power by nixing kids transfers for petty reasons?
The answer is "a lot".
Teams spend time and effort coaching kids up? Coach them well enough, give them an opportunity, and they will stay.
How many kids has VCU shipped out to lower schools, I swear every kid who couldn't get minutes here went to Campbell College for a few years.
Why shouldn't kids control their own fates?

I get all of that, which is why I don't think easy transferring should be completely eliminated. I do think it should be curtailed, however. At one brief point, the idea was that you got a single "free" transfer, and I think we should go back to that. No waivers for second transfers without sitting for a year, except in extreme circumstances. That takes care of kids who were recruited by a coach but then the coach got fired or left on their own. It also protects players who were fed a line of crap during recruiting, but then were recruited over the next season. Finally, it protects kids who get to a school and realize really quickly that they made a huge mistake. However, if they want or feel like they need to transfer again, they would have to sit for a year just like in the "old days." I think a one transfer rule would make kids think a little longer about what they're doing, both in their initial recruitment and when they think they want to jump ship. It wouldn't stop the current idea that mid-majors are like prep schools for P6 schools, but it might make the process a little more measured.

 

[WestEndEd]

I get all of that, which is why I don't think easy transferring should be completely eliminated. I do think it should be curtailed, however. At one brief point, the idea was that you got a single "free" transfer, and I think we should go back to that. No waivers for second transfers without sitting for a year, except in extreme circumstances. That takes care of kids who were recruited by a coach but then the coach got fired or left on their own. It also protects players who were fed a line of crap during recruiting, but then were recruited over the next season. Finally, it protects kids who get to a school and realize really quickly that they made a huge mistake. However, if they want or feel like they need to transfer again, they would have to sit for a year just like in the "old days." I think a one transfer rule would make kids think a little longer about what they're doing, both in their initial recruitment and when they think they want to jump ship. It wouldn't stop the current idea that mid-majors are like prep schools for P6 schools, but it might make the process a little more measured.

You can leave a job any time you get screwed over, and this is pretty much a job now.
These kids can join the army and buy bullets, they are old enough to make this kind of decision.
You want a kid to stay, build a bond with him or ante up.

 

[Ululating Daddy]

"The original idea of amateurism in sport (or “physical culture”) was developed in 19th-century England as a means of preventing the working classes from competing against the aristocracy. The essence of amateurism is such that amateur sport participants engage largely or entirely without remuneration."

The very idea of amateurism is totally antidemocratic.

It was invented by snotty rich people, who had inherited wealth.
They were tired of losing archery coemptions to soldiers, and hunting contests to game keepers.
These were the same people who expected "tradesmen" to enter the house from the rear and had no respect for people who worked.

IF anyone at VCU had a clue, they would do all they could to promote the kids NIL deals, and set every kid up with a low overhead NIL deal.
Honestly, I'd totally chip in a hundie to David Shriver if he had a NIL.

We should be having fund raisers for recruits that are on the fence.
The best way we can help recruit is to get a reputation as a generous fan base that supports anyone who produces, even one season transfers.

The only thing i worry about for NILs is, how much money actually goes to the kids?
I don't really want to put any money in the hands of T shirt printers.
Maybe we could get some one to figure out the lowest cost way to sell NFTs, not because I want an NFT but because that seems like a way to get 99% of the money into the kids hands.

With all the hours or practice, and travel to miss class, the value of the scholarship is greatly eroded.
So with that in mind, I think kids should be able to go back to school after they use up eligibility to finish degrees. (For free)

Where's that quote from? Definitely food for thought. One thing I agree with 100% is that the players should have the opportunity to finish their degrees for free, even if no longer playing. The demands on a student-athlete's time, especially in a major revenue sport, are immense.

 

[SteveMM]

You can leave a job any time you get screwed over, and this is pretty much a job now.

Employers can put legal restrictions on when you leave or where you go next. Non-competes and binding contracts on employment term come to mind. Another example is jobs where you get a signing bonus but must agree to stay at the job for X number of years. These are things you have to agree to in order to work there, of course, but I see some minimal restriction in movement as part of that kind of agreement. And, really, one easy transfer in four years isn't that restrictive, particularly when they COULD transfer again if they want to, if they're willing pay the penalty of sitting for a year.

 

[WestEndEd]

Where's that quote from? Definitely food for thought. One thing I agree with 100% is that the players should have the opportunity to finish their degrees for free, even if no longer playing. The demands on a student-athlete's time, especially in a major revenue sport, are immense.

Loading…

www.encyclopedia.com

Interesting note: Ancient Greeks, who invented the Olympics, paid people and bet on the results.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

The term is Student-Athlete... not Athlete-Student.

Student-Athletes in the profitable sports (Primarily MBB & Football) already had it made.... they are/were getting Free tuition, free room & board, free meals, free tutoring services, and other benefits that most regular students did not get. Not to mention whatever Stipends they were getting on top of that.

And not to mention, all the schools out there that were giving kids impermissible benefits... whether they got caught or not.

But that wasn't enough for them.... so now they wanna get endorsement deals and all this other stuff.... and be able to transfer whenever, wherever....

Fine, let them.... but the schools need to protect their @$$es too. Especially the non P6 schools.....So maybe since everyone's so worried about NIL & making money....

Maybe the NCAA should grow a pair and say "Fine, you all wanna be able to make money off endorsements & what not.... we're gonna treat you like a regular adult, and start making you responsible. So, the second you sign that NIL contract.... you give up your free tuition, room & board, meals, books, etc.... and you can learn to manage your money."

There are plenty of other people out there that could use a full scholarship, that are making less money in the real world than some of these student athletes are/will be making off NIL deals..... so I say once someone signs an NIL deal.... I say you pull their scholarship & make them learn to manage their money & pay their bills?

Think the student athletes will go for that? Or do you think maybe that would make them wake the F up & realize how good they had it all these years.

 

[WestEndEd]

Employers can put legal restrictions on when you leave or where you go next. Non-competes and binding contracts on employment term come to mind. Another example is jobs where you get a signing bonus but must agree to stay at the job for X number of years. These are things you have to agree to in order to work there, of course, but I see some minimal restriction in movement as part of that kind of agreement. And, really, one easy transfer in four years isn't that restrictive, particularly when they COULD transfer again if they want to, if they're willing pay the penalty of sitting for a year.

Yes, noncompete are only enforceable in very narrow areas. And if you are fired or laid off they go out the window. I happen to think they are total BS as well, morally.
For the vast majority of workers in VA , you're considered "at will" meaning you can be fired at any time, so by that logic you should also be able to leave at any time. A two weeks' notice is a courtesy not a legal requirement.
I work in sales, and companies think they can change a person's comp plan, change a person's territory, and change what products you sell , or change who your manager is and how he runs things, with no issue, but if you want to leave they will SCRRRREEEAM about the noncompete. Changing a comp plan, territory or products would all void a noncompete.
Companies just bank on you being to be scared to hire a lawyer.
So apply it to kids.
Justin Tillman was recruited by Shaka to be a 4 in a pressing system.
Then Will Wade came along, made him play zone, and once ran onto the court to stop him from dunking. The system, Tillmans job and how to do it, all changed.
Wade screwed up the recruiting and MR had to put Tillman at the 5, having to guard people who had 50 pounds on him , in the post.
Explain to me why Tillman should not have been allowed to leave and go play in a system that he fit into?
If he had, he might well have gotten more exposure and might have gotten a better shot at the NBA.
Shaka made millions, Wade made millions, why is it OK for them to leave but not Tillman?

Just for the record, I'd love for kids to come and stay for all four years and loved watching them develop.
I just don't see how my viewing pleasure gives me the right to deny the kid his rights.

Also, how many kids has VCU (or any program, really) shipped off to some lower level school because he didn't fit the system, or wasn't good enough? If we are going to have loyalty it needs to cut both ways.