Player turnover and culture

Wolfpack Ram

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I am pretty sure that since joining the A10 VCU has the most conference wins of any team along with the most NCAA invitations.

I go to the old school A10 message board and this was just posted by a Dayton fan...I put VCU at the top of this list. The Rams lose Vince Williams and a couple of other starters, but Ace returns, and Rhoades added the best overall recruiting class with two 4 star HS players. VCU recruits at the top of the A10 and has a winning culture, so I never count them out.

Most A10 fans simply know that VCU is going to be near the top and it will continue to be that way. We gotta support the team at home to ensure VCU maximizes home court advantage.

Interesting comparison between Dayton and VCU since VCU joined the A-10.

Dayton is 211-102 overall since VCU joined and 121-53 in the A-10. Dayton has 3 A-10 regular season first place finishes and 4 NCAA Tournament appearances. Anthony Grant has not taken Dayton to the NCAA Tournament, although, Dayton would have been a #1 seed in 2020 had the NCAA Tournament not been cancelled.

VCU is 231-100 overall since VCU joined and 121-51 in the A-10. VCU has 2 A-10 regular season first place finishes and 7 NCAA Tournament appearances.

FYI. Since joining the A-10 in 2014, Davidson is 121-51 overall and 91-46 in the A-10. Davidson has 2 A-10 regular season first place finishes and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances.

VCU and Dayton are clearly the flagship schools in the A-10 since VCU joined followed by Davidson, since Davidson joined. The jury will be out on what Davidson does going forward since Bob McKillop retired and his son has now taken over.
 

artRAMinMN

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debate-debate-me.gif
 

RowdyPkunk

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If I may, for all the talent we have had (or think we have had), we really do not have much to show for it. Dayton had Obie, by all accounts was headed to a final four had covid not stepped in. I do get why some posters are negative. We have had exactly one conference tournament championship and that was 7 years ago. Since we joined the conference, the Bonnies have more conference championships than we do. I get that we have had 3 coaching changes in that time period. Since MR took over we have been bested by the Bonnies, St Louis, Davidson, URI and even Richmond. In the corporate world our ROI (over the last five years) would be considered putrid. We are in the thick of it every year, I guess that's all good, but our end of the year results are not scaring anybody. Its great we are getting players to the NBA, I am all for it, but for some reason it is not translating into mega success on the court. This is not a rant against MR, tough job, I know. But something is missing and I am not smart enough to know what it is.
The issue that I see with a lot of our players in recent years (not all, but a good number of them... not going to name names either) compared to a lot of the players we got during the Grant & Shaka years (and Capel Era players too, albeit I didn't start following til the Grant era, but I've gotten to know a bunch of Capel era guys) is just the passion for the game.

Most of the guys we got during Grant's tenure & early on in Shaka's tenure were very passionate about the game. Had a lot of drive, a lot of energy. Most of them were not 4-5 star recruits, most were not Top 100 recruits. They came in with the mindset of leaving it all out on the court & trying to make the most of their opportunities. Most of them were able to block out the distractions.. (fans on social media, Sports "experts", etc.) or used it as fuel to make them play harder on the court. Most of them weren't just up & ready to leave because they weren't the star of the team at the time.... and you could tell most of them wanted to be here, not just here because we were the best offer they got or because they thought they'd get the most playing time right away with us.

The last handful of years since the Shaka era concluded.... the vibe around a lot of the players has changed in my opinion. Overall, we may be getting "better" or "more talented" players... but overall I don't see the same passion, fire and energy that I saw out of the Capel/Grant/Shaka recruited players overall. Obviously there are exceptions.... and obviously not everyone can be Bones Hyland when it comes to energy, fire, passion (and that's not even mentioning how good of a player he is).... But most of the recent recruits at any position, aren't even close to matching Bones' passion for the game. A lot of them are great players & great people.... but their drive/passion for the game is not the same as Bones or the players from the Capel/Grant/Shaka years.... and if it is they sure don't show it or act like it on the court.

Also as a whole the players we've had recently are not as good at blocking out distractions, and as we've seen, some players when things aren't going well are ready to jump ship at a moments notice. Also more so with the recent groups of players compared to the Capel/Grant/Shaka players.... the players in more recent times overall are way more visibly frustrated.... even at the little things, like being subbed out for another player... despite a good effort/performance during that previous stretch on the court.

And certainly more so in recent years we've had more players whose families have started chiming in on how they feel about certain things like playing time, coaching.. etc.

I never really saw that much, if at all with the Capel/Grant/Shaka players. Maybe it was because Shaka had a "twitter ban" or social media ban or w/e it was.... although I think we all know players were probably still looking at it. And during the Capel/Grant years... Social media wasn't the chaotic range of emotions/opinions/viewpoints/backseat driving that it is now. Not even close.
 

PhantomRam

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The issue that I see with a lot of our players in recent years (not all, but a good number of them... not going to name names either) compared to a lot of the players we got during the Grant & Shaka years (and Capel Era players too, albeit I didn't start following til the Grant era, but I've gotten to know a bunch of Capel era guys) is just the passion for the game.

Most of the guys we got during Grant's tenure & early on in Shaka's tenure were very passionate about the game. Had a lot of drive, a lot of energy. Most of them were not 4-5 star recruits, most were not Top 100 recruits. They came in with the mindset of leaving it all out on the court & trying to make the most of their opportunities. Most of them were able to block out the distractions.. (fans on social media, Sports "experts", etc.) or used it as fuel to make them play harder on the court. Most of them weren't just up & ready to leave because they weren't the star of the team at the time.... and you could tell most of them wanted to be here, not just here because we were the best offer they got or because they thought they'd get the most playing time right away with us.

The last handful of years since the Shaka era concluded.... the vibe around a lot of the players has changed in my opinion. Overall, we may be getting "better" or "more talented" players... but overall I don't see the same passion, fire and energy that I saw out of the Capel/Grant/Shaka recruited players overall. Obviously there are exceptions.... and obviously not everyone can be Bones Hyland when it comes to energy, fire, passion (and that's not even mentioning how good of a player he is).... But most of the recent recruits at any position, aren't even close to matching Bones' passion for the game. A lot of them are great players & great people.... but their drive/passion for the game is not the same as Bones or the players from the Capel/Grant/Shaka years.... and if it is they sure don't show it or act like it on the court.

Also as a whole the players we've had recently are not as good at blocking out distractions, and as we've seen, some players when things aren't going well are ready to jump ship at a moments notice. Also more so with the recent groups of players compared to the Capel/Grant/Shaka players.... the players in more recent times overall are way more visibly frustrated.... even at the little things, like being subbed out for another player... despite a good effort/performance during that previous stretch on the court.

And certainly more so in recent years we've had more players whose families have started chiming in on how they feel about certain things like playing time, coaching.. etc.

I never really saw that much, if at all with the Capel/Grant/Shaka players. Maybe it was because Shaka had a "twitter ban" or social media ban or w/e it was.... although I think we all know players were probably still looking at it. And during the Capel/Grant years... Social media wasn't the chaotic range of emotions/opinions/viewpoints/backseat driving that it is now. Not even close.
You bring up some good points. As I said, something is missing, I don't know that it is. But it clear that MR's teams have had a problem with concentration for a whole 40 minutes. Maybe the killer instinct it missing. Have we really had a "refuse to lose" type player since Tre?

PS, again, this is not knocking MR or any individual players but purely my frustration with the status quo and and not taking that "next step" with all the talent we have had, or said we have had.
 

TampaKAP

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This is not an excuse but a stone cold fact. The unbalanced conference schedule will always taint the meaning of a first place finish being the best team. Last year Davidson played Fordham, St Joes, Rhody, and the Dukes twice. They didn’t play a single top 7 team twice and they only finished 1 game ahead of VCU and Dayton VCU played 3 of the top 6 twice and Dayton played 2 of the top 6 twice so its not a stretch to think both Dayton and VCU were better in conference than the wildcats.
 

VCU74

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I have seen a lot of awful threads in my years on RamNation. This thread is in contention as possibly the all-time worst, and that’s saying a lot.
I lurked a bit, read a lot of old threads before I joined 5/29/17 and have read a lot of old threads after that. Probably favorited a post from the old days that, if the poster was paying attention, they had a “where did that come from? moment”

Anyhoo- haven’t come close to seeing it all but yeah, this thread kinda up there for me too.
 

buckwheat

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Sure. This could be the GOAT of bad threads. :lol:

Eh. There were some true wack jobs here around the time of Shaka’s first season which led to many awful threads.

This fella is just jerkin’ people’s chains. Not the best troll job by any means, but I’d give it a solid B+. He needs to control his delivery and stick to the plan a little better. If he can do that, I think he has a bright future as a VCURN troll. I look forward to seeing him progress.
 
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You bring up some good points. As I said, something is missing, I don't know that it is. But it clear that MR's teams have had a problem with concentration for a whole 40 minutes. Maybe the killer instinct it missing. Have we really had a "refuse to lose" type player since Tre?

PS, again, this is not knocking MR or any individual players but purely my frustration with the status quo and and not taking that "next step" with all the talent we have had, or said we have had.

I do think if the status quo doesn’t change with the resources and recruiting it is fair to start looking at the leader. I mean it’s up to the head coach to get the most out ot his team. If the teams have a trend of losing their focus is that every player in the system or is that the system?
 

VCU Finance 2008

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Eh. There were some true wack jobs here around the time of Shaka’s first season which led to many awful threads.

This fella is just jerkin’ people’s chains. Not the best troll job by any means, but I’d give it a solid B+. He needs to control his delivery and stick to the plan a little better. If he can do that, I think he has a bright future as a VCURN troll. I look forward to seeing him progress.
They never have the discipline or self-control and always fly off the handle by page 3.
 

SpiderRAM

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I haven’t looked at this forum in several weeks. This afternoon I decided to take a look and see what kind of fun or interesting off season news might have been posted. I opened this thread and was laughing out loud at how ridiculous it is! My goodness, this is something else!
 

rammad90

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The issue that I see with a lot of our players in recent years (not all, but a good number of them... not going to name names either) compared to a lot of the players we got during the Grant & Shaka years (and Capel Era players too, albeit I didn't start following til the Grant era, but I've gotten to know a bunch of Capel era guys) is just the passion for the game.

Most of the guys we got during Grant's tenure & early on in Shaka's tenure were very passionate about the game. Had a lot of drive, a lot of energy. Most of them were not 4-5 star recruits, most were not Top 100 recruits. They came in with the mindset of leaving it all out on the court & trying to make the most of their opportunities. Most of them were able to block out the distractions.. (fans on social media, Sports "experts", etc.) or used it as fuel to make them play harder on the court. Most of them weren't just up & ready to leave because they weren't the star of the team at the time.... and you could tell most of them wanted to be here, not just here because we were the best offer they got or because they thought they'd get the most playing time right away with us.

The last handful of years since the Shaka era concluded.... the vibe around a lot of the players has changed in my opinion. Overall, we may be getting "better" or "more talented" players... but overall I don't see the same passion, fire and energy that I saw out of the Capel/Grant/Shaka recruited players overall. Obviously there are exceptions.... and obviously not everyone can be Bones Hyland when it comes to energy, fire, passion (and that's not even mentioning how good of a player he is).... But most of the recent recruits at any position, aren't even close to matching Bones' passion for the game. A lot of them are great players & great people.... but their drive/passion for the game is not the same as Bones or the players from the Capel/Grant/Shaka years.... and if it is they sure don't show it or act like it on the court.

Also as a whole the players we've had recently are not as good at blocking out distractions, and as we've seen, some players when things aren't going well are ready to jump ship at a moments notice. Also more so with the recent groups of players compared to the Capel/Grant/Shaka players.... the players in more recent times overall are way more visibly frustrated.... even at the little things, like being subbed out for another player... despite a good effort/performance during that previous stretch on the court.

And certainly more so in recent years we've had more players whose families have started chiming in on how they feel about certain things like playing time, coaching.. etc.

I never really saw that much, if at all with the Capel/Grant/Shaka players. Maybe it was because Shaka had a "twitter ban" or social media ban or w/e it was.... although I think we all know players were probably still looking at it. And during the Capel/Grant years... Social media wasn't the chaotic range of emotions/opinions/viewpoints/backseat driving that it is now. Not even close.
I actually think it is more of a generational thing. I do think the fire is about the same. The difference is the guys we once recruited may have wanted it, but also knew their chances at NBA was slim and the only way to achieve it was to over achieve. They were simply different guys.

Today's guys were brought up with handlers, AAU, rankings, ratings etc. from age 9-10. The guy we have now are different. They have different expectations and experiences.

Plus I think Mike like Shaka recruited for more than Basketball skill. Yes, they are getting better ball players. However, our new group is a kinder, gentler group of guys. Yeah we still get a Bones, a kid from the inner city who has the hunger not to go back. But we also get Vince Williams now, a kid from who has a nuclear family unit and is middle class. The kids like Vince arent going to be as hungry because well they just arent.

All, in all I think the guys are great. I think Mike recruits good kids and if they arent he sends them packing. W/hich is what we want or should want. I also believe that players should do what is best for them. Lord knows the coaches have been doing what's best for them for a long while, as has the NCAA.
 
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