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Fixed the bolded part.

And Brad..... you wanna know why Men's Basketball is the only revenue generating sport? It's real F***ing simple.... because even while all our other sports are out there winning conference tournaments and making the big dance in their sports.... VCU as a fanbase chooses not to support them.

I'd love to find a list of all the conference championships other VCU Sports have won... since the last time VCU MBB won the A10 Tournament which was 2015.... and yet no one supports them.... and the average attendance for those sports teams both the years they won the conference.... and the attendance the years after.

VCU WBB won their first ever conference championship in 20-2021... did the attendance go up this past season? If you take out all the games where they had all the elementary school kids there on field trips.... then no the attendance did not go up. And it's only gonna get worse next year because 2 of the players whose family members that I know were at most every home game are gone. One of them was a local Richmonder coached by Bo Jones Jr. in HS.... and would average 10-15 family members (if not more) at every home game.... While they'll still show at some games every now & then I'm sure.... I doubt they'll be at every single home game going forward now that their daughter is no longer playing for us and is now gonna be over seas playing.... plus Bo Jones himself was at games quite a bit supporting his former athlete. Who knows how often he'll attend now, since I believe he is still coaching HS ball last I checked.

What about Baseball? Haven't they won the A10 at least twice since the last time our MBB team won the A10... including 1 or two trips to super regionals? How about Volleyball? I know they've won a couple. And I know there's several others... because we've seen them at the MBB games during timeouts where Ed will bring those teams out on the court to get them recognized. And it's not like it's just been one or two... no its been at least 3-5 every season..... yet MBB is the only sport people give a crap about.

Sure, we aint got football... and most of us don't want it for one reason or another... but I'd say 75-80% of VCU MBB Ticket holders have not been to a single VCU Sporting that wasn't MBB in the last 5-10 years.... if ever. Even when tickets for these other sporting events are dirt cheap... heck, even when we had the All Sports passes and you could get into everything except MBB for free.... people still couldn't find a way to support other teams.

Think about how much money the Athletics Department could bring in if people supported the other sports. For example.... WBB the season tickets are $40 I think.... but here's the thing with those tickets. None of them are game specific.... so lets say there's 16 home games..... and you have to miss a home game or two because of work, vacation, covid.... or you're just tired & don't feel like going. Unlike MBB where you gotta find someone to sell your ticket to or give it to, or it goes to waste.... for WBB you now have an extra ticket, so if you wanna bring a friend or your kid to the game... you can. Or if you're a youth/HS basketball coach & wanna use them all at once & bring your team to a game.... you can do that too.

If 1000 people bought season tickets for WBB... thats an extra $40,000 the Ath. Dept. just made easy. But no... people refuse to support them. Same goes for Baseball, Volleyball, Soccer.. etc.


Also... while I agree that if we want all that stuff you mention including paying a HC big bucks to keep them, help build up the Athletic Village.... including one day down the road possibly rebuilding the STU among other things including NIL stuff.... that people can't sit here & complain about ticket prices or donation levels or whatever..... and when things are running smooth & VCU is doing well and what not.... I don't think people would complain too much unless they are just cheap. Look after the Final 4... when things EXPLODED for us..... students coming out of the woodwork to come to VCU, every body & their brother wanting season tickets to VCU games, games selling out like hot cakes..... VCU stepped in and required donations to get season tickets.... when previously they were not required.... and as time went on the requirements to get season tickets went up. No longer would a $100 donation get you a chance to buy tickets.... you had to donate $500 at least just to be considered... then it was all based on points..... but that was when business was booming. That's when VCU was at it's peak.

The last 5 years VCU has been anything but. 2 NCAA tourneys in 5 years (4 if you take out the covid year... but we weren't going anyway that year). And even before Covid & the $250 fee fiasco.... ticket sales were dropping every single year the last 5 years.

Clearly, Ed does not know supply & demand at all. When demand is down.... you don't raise your price of tickets, start adding additional fees and/or screwing over CC/Long term donors aka YOUR MOST LOYAL CUSTOMERS.... because guess what... thats even more people that are going to stop donating and/or stop attending games all together... and we are not just talking about Band wagon fans that only wanna support the team when things are going well.... we are talking about people who have been supporting VCU MBB longer than some of us posters have been alive.... donors who have been through all the times that were way worse than what we are going through right now in terms of performance on the court. I'm sorry but that's a MAJOR problem.... and should be a major red flag to any body considering donating or buying season tickets.

And like someone else said.... in regards to them trying to eliminate the CCM agreement members and not honor it.... what if they try to do the same thing with all our priority points? What if for one reason or another.... one of us has to take a year off from donating/buying season tickets.... and tries to start back up the season after and Ed or someone in the AD says "Oh we're sorry, your points have been wiped clean because you took a year off, now you have to start fresh"..... who is to say they won't try to pull that stunt? Or if we all of a sudden make a deep run in the tourney again and we get another explosion in ticket sales or season ticket requests.... and Ed or someone in the AD decides.... "Due to the increase in demand, we are going to start everyone's priority points fresh & go based off donation levels starting with the 20## fiscal year." Because they know that if we make another deep run... we could have similar results as the Final 4 Run when it comes to ticket sales & season ticket requests & will sell out more games than not.

There's no telling what Ed will try & do next. We already saw the $250 fiasco that was supposed to be a way to get around the tax law.... which I think anyone with common sense knows.... that whole thing was BS and just another way to get more money out of people.

It's not people being cheap or just complaining about rising costs. It's called people using their dang brains & knowing smart business practices. What Ed is doing, is NOT smart business practice.... and if hes not careful.... it could end up very bad not only for him but the AD & school as a whole.

Right now with demands down.... he should be finding ways to get as many people in to the games & butts in the seats as possible.... not figuring out ways to price gouge his most loyal customers.
I agree the non-bb sports are not getting the attendance and I expect there are many reasons for this. The rest was right on. If RAF donations are down almost 1/2 million. Where do they expect to get voluntary money from for the new very expensive facilities? Why should taxpayers be the ones to pay when the $ comes from the state. It only benefits a small number of people and the Squirrels BB owners. I think corporate donors will be the main source for it, with naming rights. I suggest that anyone interested should send an email to Dr. Rao with their concerns. He does not have a public email, so send to Pamela Lepley at [email protected]. If you are a CCA donor, ask why it's not binding. I love VCU, it gave me a great education and have provided me with great entertainment for my support for 40 years.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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It has nothing to do with VCU fans. Football and men’s basketball are the only money generating sports for almost every school in the country, including P5 schools. Women’s basketball might break even at a couple schools, but even at a place like UConn it probably doesn’t cover Geno’s salary, the players’ scholarships, travel expenses, etc. College baseball and hockey are the same. Everything else is a money loser everywhere. This doesn’t change the value in having these sports, but it’s not a VCU fan issue.

College baseball generates revenue for many P5 schools. Yes, there are bottom feeders in every conference that may not finish in the black, but most P5 do regarding baseball. Outside of the P5 schools you also have schools like ECU that are also generating revenue through baseball. Baseball might be the fastest growing revenue sport in college athletics.
 

VCU Heel

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College baseball generates revenue for many P5 schools. Yes, there are bottom feeders in every conference that may not finish in the black, but most P5 do regarding baseball. Outside of the P5 schools you also have schools like ECU that are also generating revenue through baseball. Baseball might be the fastest growing revenue sport in college athletics.
Generating revenue that pays for the sport (salaries, scholarships, facilities, travel, etc.) with money left over? Very few schools do that in baseball and most of them are in the SEC and ACC.

And this is even more true for other sports. Women’s volleyball isn’t making money anywhere. And making money isn’t the point of it.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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Generating revenue that pays for the sport (salaries, scholarships, facilities, travel, etc.) with money left over? Very few schools do that in baseball and most of them are in the SEC and ACC.

And this is even more true for other sports. Women’s volleyball isn’t making money anywhere. And making money isn’t the point of it.

For starters, baseball only funds 11.7 scholarships in the NCAA. You are also forgetting about the Big 12 and quite a few PAC 12 schools that draw extremely well for baseball. Many of these schools draw better than MLB minor league teams.
 

Ramaholic

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Generating revenue that pays for the sport (salaries, scholarships, facilities, travel, etc.) with money left over? Very few schools do that in baseball and most of them are in the SEC and ACC.

And this is even more true for other sports. Women’s volleyball isn’t making money anywhere. And making money isn’t the point of it.
Do we do that in MBB? Do we raise enough in donations, advertising, ticket sales, merch and NCAA shares to fully fund the MBB program? Salaries alone approach $3 million. Throw in the buy games, travel, recruiting, schollies, cost of attendance... I am not factoring in facilities. Nor am I factoring in student fees on the revenue side.
Of course the big payback is the exposure the program recieves nationwide. So you can't put an exact figure on that.
 

VCU Heel

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Do we do that in MBB? Do we raise enough in donations, advertising, ticket sales, merch and NCAA shares to fully fund the MBB program? Salaries alone approach $3 million. Throw in the buy games, travel, recruiting, schollies, cost of attendance... I am not factoring in facilities. Nor am I factoring in student fees on the revenue side.
Of course the big payback is the exposure the program recieves nationwide. So you can't put an exact figure on that.
The MBB program covers itself and all of the other sports at VCU too. Donations and other revenues that come because of the MBB program pay for everything.
 
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Do we do that in MBB? Do we raise enough in donations, advertising, ticket sales, merch and NCAA shares to fully fund the MBB program? Salaries alone approach $3 million. Throw in the buy games, travel, recruiting, schollies, cost of attendance... I am not factoring in facilities. Nor am I factoring in student fees on the revenue side.
one of my favorite topics - Using the 2020 fiscal year athletic report that the state auditor reviews (not audited with an opinion but just agreed upon procedures to ensure compliance with ncaa reporting requirements ) - this was the last full basketball year before the real impact of pandemic that impaired revenues in 21 and part of 22

their is great inconsistency between universities (collectively I include colleges too in that term) in how they report revenues and expenses and allocate administrative expenses among the various sports if at all - additionally their is significant differences in how capital cost of operating and paying for capital costs are recorded and/or allocated ( e.g. VCU's reports lists over $2.6 million in debt service payments (annual principal and interest on bonds paid) relating to primarily the basketball practice facility - which we recognize is used by both men and women B-ball teams, exclusively

following is a capsule summary of reported revenues and expenditures for men's basketball from the fiscal year 2020 . the amounts are recorded in millions

Revenue

ticket sales 2.4
contributions 4.3 (this represents the amounts transferred from the foundation for use this year and not necessarily all received)
Ad, sponsorship 1.4
total revenue $8.1 million

Expense

student aid .9
guarantees .6 (buy games)
coaches salaries 2.6 (includes benefits and bonuses)
Support staff .6 (salaries, benefits and bonuses)
Recruiting .2
Team Travel 1.0
Game expense .2
direct overhead .2 (not quite sure here)
non travel meals .2 (for athletes)
other .1
total expense $6.6 million
excess revenues over expenses is $1.5 million

now the real squishy part of financial statements here is that VCU has a column called non program specific that lists revenues and expenses

revenues in this column total $26.7 million of which $22.1 million is student fees and $1.4 million is conference distributions which are likely related to mens basketball tournament and another item called ncaa distributions of .2 million likely related to mens basketball tournaments

expenditures in this column of non program specific are $15.4 million of unallocated expenses incurred to operate athletics
a major item that relates to basketball (men and women) is $2.6 million of debt service payments primarily relating to the BDC . additionally there are a few other main items that are not allocated 1. support staff and admin compensation and benefits of $5.3 million and 2. direct overhead and admin expenses of $4.2 million that is not allocated to any specific sport

some schools further allocate those type of expenses to individual sports using some allocation methodology that attempts to full cost individual sport costs but like I said the one thing that is consistent is that college and universities are inconsistent in how they report their athletic activities so that comparison from one to another is difficult if not impossible on the surface

Apologies for the length of this (yeah I was a CPA at one time before I found religion!!)
Intuitively, I think if VCU mens basketball was full costed that it would probably make a little bit of money annually as a stand alone entity

go rams
 

Ramaholic

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one of my favorite topics - Using the 2020 fiscal year athletic report that the state auditor reviews (not audited with an opinion but just agreed upon procedures to ensure compliance with ncaa reporting requirements ) - this was the last full basketball year before the real impact of pandemic that impaired revenues in 21 and part of 22

their is great inconsistency between universities (collectively I include colleges too in that term) in how they report revenues and expenses and allocate administrative expenses among the various sports if at all - additionally their is significant differences in how capital cost of operating and paying for capital costs are recorded and/or allocated ( e.g. VCU's reports lists over $2.6 million in debt service payments (annual principal and interest on bonds paid) relating to primarily the basketball practice facility - which we recognize is used by both men and women B-ball teams, exclusively

following is a capsule summary of reported revenues and expenditures for men's basketball from the fiscal year 2020 . the amounts are recorded in millions

Revenue

ticket sales 2.4
contributions 4.3 (this represents the amounts transferred from the foundation for use this year and not necessarily all received)
Ad, sponsorship 1.4
total revenue $8.1 million

Expense

student aid .9
guarantees .6 (buy games)
coaches salaries 2.6 (includes benefits and bonuses)
Support staff .6 (salaries, benefits and bonuses)
Recruiting .2
Team Travel 1.0
Game expense .2
direct overhead .2 (not quite sure here)
non travel meals .2 (for athletes)
other .1
total expense $6.6 million
excess revenues over expenses is $1.5 million

now the real squishy part of financial statements here is that VCU has a column called non program specific that lists revenues and expenses

revenues in this column total $26.7 million of which $22.1 million is student fees and $1.4 million is conference distributions which are likely related to mens basketball tournament and another item called ncaa distributions of .2 million likely related to mens basketball tournaments

expenditures in this column of non program specific are $15.4 million of unallocated expenses incurred to operate athletics
a major item that relates to basketball (men and women) is $2.6 million of debt service payments primarily relating to the BDC . additionally there are a few other main items that are not allocated 1. support staff and admin compensation and benefits of $5.3 million and 2. direct overhead and admin expenses of $4.2 million that is not allocated to any specific sport

some schools further allocate those type of expenses to individual sports using some allocation methodology that attempts to full cost individual sport costs but like I said the one thing that is consistent is that college and universities are inconsistent in how they report their athletic activities so that comparison from one to another is difficult if not impossible on the surface

Apologies for the length of this (yeah I was a CPA at one time before I found religion!!)
Intuitively, I think if VCU mens basketball was full costed that it would probably make a little bit of money annually as a stand alone entity

go rams
That's better than I thought (for the first part). I dont want to get into the squishy numbers as I ma not an accountant.
I am not advocating dismantling or cutting back. Having a college athltic program is a neccessary component of the college experience. Its nice to see us operating in the black with our main revenue sport. An added bonus is that we do pretty darn well across the board. As I said earlier, the real payback is the exposure we get for competing at a high level. It reflects well on the university. Especially in a state like VA where there is a bias for many years against VCU as a state university.
note: also not reflected in Revenue is NCAA money and TV money (which can be substantial).
 
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Ramaholic

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The MBB program covers itself and all of the other sports at VCU too. Donations and other revenues that come because of the MBB program pay for everything.
I imagine there are some programs that spend more on there revenue producing sports than they make. ODU comes to mind as one that may fall into that category.
 
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The MBB program covers itself and all of the other sports at VCU too. Donations and other revenues that come because of the MBB program pay for everything.
VCU is no where close to covering athletic costs from its own revenues much less the revenues generated from mens basketball

VCU requires over $22 million of subsidy from student fees to balance the athletic budget - men's basketball basically pays for men's basketball if you fairly allocate the capital costs of our facilities that mens basketball uses that were only partially paid for by fund raising

using 2020 Auditor of Public Accounts reports student fees / total athletic revenues percentage (subsidy%)
JMU requires $45.7 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 79%
Odu requires $32.6 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 67%
GMU requires $19.0 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 62%
Radford requires $9.7 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 80%
VCU 63%
Va Tech 11%
uVA 13%
 
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VCU Heel

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VCU is no where close to covering athletic costs from its own revenues much less the revenues generated from mens basketball

VCU requires over $22 million of subsidy from student fees to balance the athletic budget - men's basketball basically pays for men's basketball if you fairly allocate the capital costs of our facilities that mens basketball uses that were only partially paid for by fund raising

using 2020 Auditor of Public Accounts reports student fees / total athletic revenues percentage (subsidy%)
JMU requires $45.7 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 79%
Odu requires $32.6 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 67%
GMU requires $19.0 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 62%
Radford requires $9.7 million of student fees to balance athletic budget 80%
VCU 63%
Va Tech 11%
uVA 13%
Forgot about student fees. But we come as close to covering everything with out MBB program as almost any non-P5 country with a real athletic department in the country. I would wager that 90-95% of our donations come in because of people donating solely based on the MBB program. It’s why I started donating.
 

BradRamFan

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Fixed the bolded part.

And Brad..... you wanna know why Men's Basketball is the only revenue generating sport? It's real F***ing simple.... because even while all our other sports are out there winning conference tournaments and making the big dance in their sports.... VCU as a fanbase chooses not to support them.
Dude, for most universities across this country, it is men's football and men's basketball that bring in the revenue. Lack of support or attendance for other sports isn't unique to VCU. It's the way things are. It's life. In fact, "It's The American Way!" Americans support Football and Basketball....college or professional. Few other sports across this country generate the income that football and basketball do.
 
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Forgot about student fees. But we come as close to covering everything with out MBB program as almost any non-P5 country with a real athletic department in the country. I would wager that 90-95% of our donations come in because of people donating solely based on the MBB program. It’s why I started donating.
$1,905,000 in RAF donations for 2022-2023 per VCU FOIA.
 
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