The Class of 2020....so far.......

May 1, 2009
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You dont call ticky tacks to speed the game up.
Disagree...players will adjust their game to prevent themselves from getting such fouls. To do this, they will back off the player and giving them more freedom of movement or open the lane for driving players.........end result after players adjust is an increased score with less ability to play defense.
 
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BaNgMyPrOgRaM

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Mar 27, 2009
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How often do we lament ticky-tacks? Slows the game down. Gives our opposition a breather and we know the refs need it too.
 

duncanlamb

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Apr 22, 2009
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"I just think European players are just way more skillful, They are just taught the game the right way at an early age. ... They're more skillful. It's something we really have to fix. We really have to address that. We have to teach our kids to play the right way."

"AAU basketball, Horrible, terrible AAU basketball. It's stupid. It doesn't teach our kids how to play the game at all so you wind up having players that are big and they bring it up and they do all this fancy crap and they don't know how to post. They don't know the fundamentals of the game. It's stupid."

"When you have limitations and you understand your limitations and you stay within yourself, you can be great, You know what you can do and what you can't do. In America, it's a big problem for us because we're not teaching players how to play all-around basketball. That's why you have Pau and Marc [Gasol], and that's the reason why 90 percent of the Spurs' roster is European players, because they have more skill."

“Teach players the game at an early age and stop treating them like cash cows for everyone to profit off of, That's how you do that. You have to teach them the game. Give them instruction."

-Kobe Bryant
I used to think this. Its dependent on the aau programs. The best ones such as PSA Cardinals, MASS Rivals, IMG, ?Montverde all preach defense.
 

Ramlove81

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Dec 4, 2013
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When the thrust of the NBA and most other America sports is offense and more and higher scoring, that is what your HS, AAU and college teams will most like all push rather than playing sound, fundamental basketball. Shoot the ball and score, shoot the ball and score. From the 80's in college they added the three point line and have decreased and decreased the amount of possession time....all geared to increase the score. Now colleges refs are all being pushed to call a bunch of ticky-tack fouls....again, all meant to speed up the game and allow players a better opportunity to score.
I think speeding up the game is an indirect result of allowing more freedom of movement. Both the NBA and college game had gotten to the point where the team that was the best at pushing and shoving won the game. No one could move around the court without be pushed, hand checked, hip checked, kneed, jersey grabbed, elbowed... At least for me, it wasn't much fun to watch. if I wanted a wrestling match I'd go to a wrestling match. The NBA fixed their product first, college has responded and I think is still struggling and meeting some resistance. The changes may result in what some consider ticky tack fouls. Others may consider those fouls that should always have been called. It sometimes doesn't help our style of play, which has been one of physically challenging our opponents long before it was labeled HAVOC. I think you can still play solid defense with these rules, you just have to redefine some of the ways you play it. It's always been important, but now moving your feet to be in position is more important than ever. If you move your feet and you are in position to make a play refs will give you leeway. if you are always reaching and not in position, you're going to get fouls. I only ask that it's called the same both ways.
 
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BaNgMyPrOgRaM

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Defensively minded, it will be tough to not get a social distance penalty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When does a joke get to become a Dad joke?

When it's a-parent!
 
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Who_Dat_Ninja

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Dec 3, 2016
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"I just think European players are just way more skillful, They are just taught the game the right way at an early age. ... They're more skillful. It's something we really have to fix. We really have to address that. We have to teach our kids to play the right way."

"AAU basketball, Horrible, terrible AAU basketball. It's stupid. It doesn't teach our kids how to play the game at all so you wind up having players that are big and they bring it up and they do all this fancy crap and they don't know how to post. They don't know the fundamentals of the game. It's stupid."

"When you have limitations and you understand your limitations and you stay within yourself, you can be great, You know what you can do and what you can't do. In America, it's a big problem for us because we're not teaching players how to play all-around basketball. That's why you have Pau and Marc [Gasol], and that's the reason why 90 percent of the Spurs' roster is European players, because they have more skill."

“Teach players the game at an early age and stop treating them like cash cows for everyone to profit off of, That's how you do that. You have to teach them the game. Give them instruction."

-Kobe Bryant
There's absolute truth in this. But its not really the point I was making. This opens up a whole new conversation.

But to what Kobe said: Yes the Europeans are taught to play the game with fundamentals in mind. With that said, the European kids have less god given athleticism (obviously you have your outliers, but im speaking "overall"). They are taught the fundamentals at an earlier age and this squeezes more out of what they are given to work with.

When it comes down to it, the kids in the US have way higher athleticism and raw skill to work with. Sometimes they are never taught to play the game "correctly". I put "correctly" in quotes because what is the "correct" way to play? Is it they are never taught fundamentals? Some athletes are good enough to get away with not worrying about fundamentals. Is the correct way to play the College game? The NBA? Is it the International game? They are all different and every generation changes it the game even more. The new generation picks up what the previous generation lays out, and coupled with new rule changes - you end up with a sport that is ever adapting and changing.

When they got rid of hand checking this completely opened the game up. This is another topic, but could you imagine if Jordan played in an era with no hand checking? someone above mentioned it - the game is all about scoring now... pushing the ball. score, score, score. Pop has the Spurs playing at an extremely high level. He's one of the best coaches of all time. That is what you get when you have the best of both worlds. The highest tier athletes playing "together" and mastering fundamentals. And that is a beautiful thing. I love when you have a well coached team that plays together on both sides of the ball.

Back to Kobe's point... there are a TON of AAU teams now. And half of them are crap (or more). But there are some REALLY REALLY well run and managed AAU teams. And, back to my original point - overall, the level of play is getting better at a younger age. That is without a question true.
 
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Mar 1, 2015
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When the thrust of the NBA and most other America sports is offense and more and higher scoring, that is what your HS, AAU and college teams will most like all push rather than playing sound, fundamental basketball. Shoot the ball and score, shoot the ball and score. From the 80's in college they added the three point line and have decreased and decreased the amount of possession time....all geared to increase the score. Now colleges refs are all being pushed to call a bunch of ticky-tack fouls....again, all meant to speed up the game and allow players a better opportunity to score.
Rules will always change when scoring drops - Have to maintain a watchable product. Offense and defense adjusting to each other creates peaks and valleys I guess. Playing "fast" takes cohesiveness just like a half court slow down offense. A fast break offense is pretty structured. Particularly in college, teams seem to be having trouble pushing the pace, and scoring has been an issue for a period of time. Lots of factors - talent drain, lack of practice time to work on offense, roster turnover etc. all factor in.

I'm not an AAU expert by any means, but what it is basically is a talent show. Players looking to display their ability, "upside" etc to get where they want to go. I would too. Its not about winning. But this has displaced actual basketball in the player development and the talent pipeline. The people running it often have self serving motives. Relationships with the coaches, sneaker people lead to money. You have seen that recently with the investigations. Some may just like doing it and being involved in it all. But some local guy really isn't going to be in tune with developing the overall product of basketball. And when players enter college and the bulk of their playing has been a one on one AAU style basketball pageant, that is going to negatively effect a teams ability to score.

Personally, I like the rule changes. Don't want to players without the ball banged around to a point people can't score. I like a longer 3 line to create space. Also the recent point of officiating to take away the bale out calls, players barreling into traffic hoping for a foul. I like it all.
 
Mar 1, 2015
1,268
1,820
There's absolute truth in this. But its not really the point I was making. This opens up a whole new conversation.

But to what Kobe said: Yes the Europeans are taught to play the game with fundamentals in mind. With that said, the European kids have less god given athleticism (obviously you have your outliers, but im speaking "overall"). They are taught the fundamentals at an earlier age and this squeezes more out of what they are given to work with.

When it comes down to it, the kids in the US have way higher athleticism and raw skill to work with. Sometimes they are never taught to play the game "correctly". I put "correctly" in quotes because what is the "correct" way to play? Is it they are never taught fundamentals? Some athletes are good enough to get away with not worrying about fundamentals. Is the correct way to play the College game? The NBA? Is it the International game? They are all different and every generation changes it the game even more. The new generation picks up what the previous generation lays out, and coupled with new rule changes - you end up with a sport that is ever adapting and changing.

When they got rid of hand checking this completely opened the game up. This is another topic, but could you imagine if Jordan played in an era with no hand checking? someone above mentioned it - the game is all about scoring now... pushing the ball. score, score, score. Pop has the Spurs playing at an extremely high level. He's one of the best coaches of all time. That is what you get when you have the best of both worlds. The highest tier athletes playing "together" and mastering fundamentals. And that is a beautiful thing. I love when you have a well coached team that plays together on both sides of the ball.

Back to Kobe's point... there are a TON of AAU teams now. And half of them are crap (or more). But there are some REALLY REALLY well run and managed AAU teams. And, back to my original point - overall, the level of play is getting better at a younger age. That is without a question true.
I agree. But overall the pace of the game and quality of offense seems to have struggled a little in college. Players coming in are more physically prepared now. But I don't think the AAU circuit is doing the college game any favors in the overall quality of the product due to the nature of what it is. If they were, there would not be issues that needed constantly addressed to maintain scoring. And AAU/college as the primary feeder system for the pros had NBA people concerned. Thats why changes are being implemented at least as far as elite prospects go. I think Silver and the NBA higher ups are doing a great job and moving in the right direction. The NBA needs to be more involved with youth basketball, and they are starting to do it. They have the most at stake, and are the only entity capable of improving it.