The Future of the A10 from a Scheduling Perspective

t23e3

Elite Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Posts
247
Likes
496
I don't get this. And what's your beef with ed? Shaka was on the committee that picked him and he backed up a truck of money to Shaka to counter the Texas deal. Well over 3m a year - the fact that a school like VCU was offering that kinda cash shows the commitment Rao and Ed have for bball.

There is no other conference we can go to other than the American. Do you view that as an upgrade? A few months ago I would have said heck yes. Now, I'd pass.
I was gonna say... We matched Shaka's Texas salary. He left anyway.
 

WillWeaverRVA

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Posts
17,351
Likes
35,517
I don't get this. And what's your beef with ed? Shaka was on the committee that picked him and he backed up a truck of money to Shaka to counter the Texas deal. Well over 3m a year - the fact that a school like VCU was offering that kinda cash shows the commitment Rao and Ed have for bball.

There is no other conference we can go to other than the American. Do you view that as an upgrade? A few months ago I would have said heck yes. Now, I'd pass.
A lot of people have this unreasonable hatred for Ed and I can’t understand why. They blame him for every possible issue we may (or don’t) have. Even that guy on Twitter says we should fire Ed because of our injuries, which is wildly nonsensical. He’s probably done more for VCU and all its sports than most previous ADs we’ve had in the past 30 years or so, even that slimeball Norwood.
 

t23e3

Elite Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Posts
247
Likes
496
A lot of people have this unreasonable hatred for Ed and I can’t understand why. They blame him for every possible issue we may (or don’t) have. Even that guy on Twitter says we should fire Ed because of our injuries, which is wildly nonsensical. He’s probably done more for VCU and all its sports than most previous ADs we’ve had in the past 30 years or so, even that slimeball Norwood.

We won more A10 championships for 20-21 than any other school in the A10 by quite some margin. We have very successful sports programs.

https://atlantic10.com/sports/2020/7/9/2021champs.aspx

Field hockey, women's basketball, men's and women's tennis, women's track and field, baseball.
 

RowdyPkunk

Elite Member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Posts
23,630
Likes
20,946
The A-10 isn't 'trending' toward a 1-bid league, we're already there. But most around these parts are happy enough with it, they've stuck with an AD who let the best coach in program history walk out the door and has done little to nothing to get us into a better league. At least we're not a football school tho amirite?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

We didn't "let" Shaka walk out the door... we got out bid for him. Do you not know the story of everything that happened that night? The team was in one room, the AD for us was in another room, and the AD for Texas was in another room all in the STU.... and he was going back & forth between the 2 ADs.... eventually it got to a point where Ed couldn't up the offer any more on his end. Plus Shaka even made the comment "it was one of the schools on his short list that he'd leave VCU for". Every coach has this kind of a list I'm sure. Every coach has their "dream school" to coach at.

Maybe it's their alma mater.... maybe it's a school with the lore of a Duke, UNC, UCLA... etc. And for others... they take the first offer that comes to them. Also you may forget.... Shaka turned down like 4-5 schools in previous years who had tried to poach him from us. So it wasn't like he took the first offer he got right after the Final 4 run.

Also, clearly you don't follow the A10 closely if you think we are a 1 bid league. There are years where it might've been... if the #1 seed didn't lose on a friday in the tourney... or lose in the championship game. But that's why we play the games.

As far as getting us into a better league.... Ed can only do but so much. It's more so up to our team to go out there and win games against big opponents. Its more so up to our team to go out there and win our conference more often then not.

And lets see here..... Since we've joined the A10 in 2012-13... we have....
1 co regular season title (shared with Dayton & SBU... 2015-16), 1 outright regular season title (2018-19), and we have 1 A10 Tournament championship (2014-15).... despite being in the A10 Tourney final 6 times... including our first 5 years in the conference.

So in 9 seasons... we've been really good, but we haven't dominated the A10 like we used to dominate the CAA.... which is why (along with the Final 4 run) we got the call up to the A10 from the CAA.

If we wanna get the call from the AAC (or by some miracle the Big East).... we need to go out there & start winning these early season tourney games against big teams & stop going 1-2 in those tournaments. That's not gonna get us anywhere.... and then on top of that... we need to go out there & start truly dominating our conference.

Maybe once we do that, and we start making runs at least to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA Tourney... then we can start talking bout the AAC (or by some miracle the Big East).... until then... yeah it's not gonna happen.
 

GuardTheArc

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Posts
886
Likes
1,402
The A-10 is arguably the next best basketball league outside of the P6. It will not be a one-bid league. Going forward as currently constructed, it'll likely continue as an annual 2-4 bid league with a #7-9 conference NET/RPI/KP ranking (after the P6 conferences).

The 16-team 2013 A-10 lost Butler, Xavier, Temple, and Charlotte. The replacements (Davidson, GMU) are a cumulative/considerable downgrade and, over time, less bids (than 4-5 annually) are expected as a result (less teams (16 to 14), less quality).

The A-10 would have had at least 2 teams in the dance in COVID-abbreviated non-NCAA 2019-2020 (Dayton, Richmond)...........maybe more depending on the A-10 tourney outcome. The same can be said each year for other competitive, potentially multi-bid non-P6 conferences (say conferences #7-12) and, quite frankly, the A-10 in most years (the results of the A-10 tourney sometimes provides that extra bid).

Most years, VCU/Dayton/St Louis/Richmond/St Bonny/Rhody (nearly half the league) will generally provide enough firepower to generate 2-3 bids. Sometimes another team will surprise (like Sweet 16 LaSalle or a strong GW or a St Joes). A mediocre A-10 year will generate 2 bids. A decent year will yield 3. An outstanding year will yield 4. That's about right for a non-P6, basketball-centric conference with 14 teams (and our typical metrics).

As for scheduling (to get more A-10 bids), that's more of a conference issue/problem.............certainly not a VCU issue/problem. The Rams have scheduled OOC brilliantly, taken on typically tough/challenging A-10 slates, and won enough games by Selection Sunday (typically 24+ wins) to garner the most at-large bids of any non-P6 school over the past decade.

Dayton, St Louis, Rhody typically schedule well too.

Any team's schedule needs a delicate balance of rigor/softness, of road/neutral/home, of conf/OOC challenges to position itself (metrically) for an at-large. VCU has practically "written the manual" to achieve this result by Selection Sunday. Scheduling these "conference challenges" with other non-P6 conferences is probably not value-added in the long run. Accomplished programs like VCU/Dayton/St Louis/Rhody/UR (with realistic at-large hopes) can get those games on their own.

There will always be enough challenging OOC games to go around (whether we play 11, 13, or 15 of them annually). As for conference play, the upper echelon, at-large-contending A-10 schools tend to play each other twice........which is sufficient. You need a nice mix of "get well" games (i.e. expected wins) as well to keep your metrics and conference standing lofty.

What the article should say is that the lower echelon A-10 teams (generally small, private northeastern-based schools) need to start investing in facilities and such to keep up with VCU/Dayton/Rhody/St Louis/UMass/Richmond/GMU. That is way overdue and probably not feasible (budget-wise) for many. However, Bernie is not going to "rock the boat" with any ultimatums. Her retirement account is doing quite well as is. Status quo is all she desires, much like Tom Yeager back in the CAA days.

What the article won't say (and truth be told) is that Fordham, LaSalle, GW, St Joes, Duquesne, St Bonny, even Davidson should probably be playing in other (lesser) leagues with schools more aligned with their size/budgets/alum base. They should probably be competing with schools like Canisius, Mercer, Campbell, Wagner, St Francis, Albany, Hofstra, Northeastern, Drexel, Robert Morris, etc.
 
Last edited:

BaNgMyPrOgRaM

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Posts
21,386
Likes
12,742
Great conversation guys and I, like you, believe St. Bonaventure is a flash in the pan too! LOL -------------=====
 

Wolfpack Ram

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Posts
13,907
Likes
23,870
A lot of people have this unreasonable hatred for Ed and I can’t understand why. They blame him for every possible issue we may (or don’t) have. Even that guy on Twitter says we should fire Ed because of our injuries, which is wildly nonsensical. He’s probably done more for VCU and all its sports than most previous ADs we’ve had in the past 30 years or so, even that slimeball Norwood.

I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment of Ed. Ed has had success, but also has burned plenty of bridges during his tenure at VCU. And you can call Norwood a "slimeball", but he hired Shaka, and that single hiring has done more for VCU athletics than any other decision/move by the athletic department. Shaka made it possible to build the BDC, not Ed. Shaka made VCU a national name brand, not Ed. Shaka got VCU into the A-10. Ed was just along for the ride. Every VCU head basketball coach since Shaka was found by Shaka, not Ed. It was Norwood that capitalized on Shaka and VCU's Final Four run in order to position VCU for where it is today.

And, if you really want to get down to specifics, Dick Sander laid the foundation for VCU basketball by leading the way and overseeing the building of the Stu. Sander was also the creator of Villa 7, which VCU athletics benefitted from immensely while he was our AD.

Ed has been a big time benefactor of his predecessors' success.
 
Last edited:

GuardTheArc

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Posts
886
Likes
1,402
Nine (9) Game-Changers for the Athletic Dept (in no particular order):
1) Siegel Center opening (on-campus facility)
2) Villa 7 creation
3) Hiring Jeff Capel
4) Hiring Shaka Smart
5) Building the BDC
6) Hiring Norwood Teague
7) Joining the A-10
8) Launching plans (acquiring land) for the Athletic Village
9) Intelligent non-revenue sport hiring (Keyes, Stiffler, Kostin, Ball, Giffard, etc)

The parties responsible for the above deserve a lot of credit, IMO.
 

TampaKAP

Elite Member
Insider
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Posts
4,859
Likes
9,734
I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment of Ed. Ed has had success, but also has burned plenty of bridges during his tenure at VCU. And you can call Norwood a "slimeball", but he hired Shaka, and that single hiring has done more for VCU athletics than any other decision/move by the athletic department. Shaka made it possible to build the BDC, not Ed. Shaka made VCU a national name brand, not Ed. Shaka got VCU into the A-10. Ed was just along for the ride. Every VCU head basketball coach since Shaka was found by Shaka, not Ed. It was Norwood that capitalized on Shaka and VCU's Final Four run in order to position VCU for where it is today.

And, if you really want to get down to specifics, Dick Sander laid the foundation for VCU basketball by leading the way and overseeing the building of the Stu. Sander was also the creator of Villa 7, which VCU athletics benefitted from immensely while he was our AD.

Ed has been a big time benefactor of his predecessors' success.
I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing but using your logic, VCU could have hired the Easter bunny or Santa Claus and arrived at the same place we are today.
 

peacefulbonnie

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Posts
27
Likes
118
What the article won't say (and truth be told) is that Fordham, LaSalle, GW, St Joes, Duquesne, St Bonny, even Davidson should probably be playing in other (lesser) leagues with schools more aligned with their size/budgets/alum base. They should probably be competing with schools like Canisius, Mercer, Campbell, Wagner, St Francis, Albany, Hofstra, Northeastern, Drexel, Robert Morris, etc.
You do realize Saint Joe's has a bigger hoops budget than VCU, Cal. WSU, San Diego St., etc?

While their on the count performance has been mediocre the past decade, they most certainly do not belong in a conference with the likes of Canisius, Wagner, St. Francis.

Aside from La Salle and probably Fordham (despite what they spend on hoops), the A10 has likely the best hoops programs on the east coast in terms of fan support, budget and performance outside of the powers.
 
Last edited:
Top