The Future of the A10 from a Scheduling Perspective

Havoc City

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I mostly like Ed and don’t blame him for Shaka’s departure. He dropped the ball on Ryan and the Peppas though causing the home atmosphere to suffer. He also did have that mishap with volleyball early on.
I strongly agree that the new band director can't hold a flame to what Ryan was doing. At this point, we're just a regular band, not one of the best in the country.
 

WillWeaverRVA

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He dropped the ball on Ryan and the Peppas though causing the home atmosphere to suffer
I'm pretty sure this is the key reason why a lot of the people who dislike Ed actually dislike him. I still don't believe the Ryan thing was entirely his call, I think that was a state thing, in which case that issue was inevitable.

The volleyball thing was quite weird and a really bad move, though, I will agree with that, although at the same time, Coach Finley went on to have a mediocre career at Seattle University and was fired from there a couple of years ago after only one winning season.
 

AlienAiden

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I'm pretty sure this is the key reason why a lot of the people who dislike Ed actually dislike him. I still don't believe the Ryan thing was entirely his call, I think that was a state thing, in which case that issue was inevitable.

The volleyball thing was quite weird and a really bad move, though, I will agree with that, although at the same time, Coach Finley went on to have a mediocre career at Seattle University and was fired from there a couple of years ago after only one winning season.
The new volleyball coach is fantastic. She has them at the top of the league every year. Ed knew what he was doing. He wants every sport to have the best opportunity to win.
 

WillWeaverRVA

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The new volleyball coach is fantastic. She has them at the top of the league every year. Ed knew what he was doing. He wants every sport to have the best opportunity to win.
Yeah, I honestly think we're better off with Coach Rogers. She has done an incredible job turning the volleyball team into a perennial powerhouse.
 

Havoc City

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I'm pretty sure this is the key reason why a lot of the people who dislike Ed actually dislike him. I still don't believe the Ryan thing was entirely his call, I think that was a state thing, in which case that issue was inevitable.

The volleyball thing was quite weird and a really bad move, though, I will agree with that, although at the same time, Coach Finley went on to have a mediocre career at Seattle University and was fired from there a couple of years ago after only one winning season.
A state thing???
 

mrgeode

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A state thing???
The state requires a bachelor's degree for teaching positions at state universities. Ryan didn't have one at the time (dunno about now) and wasn't willing or able to get one. The AD wasn't willing or able to create a position that didn't require one that met Ryan's desired salary/benefits package, so that was that.
 

Havoc City

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The state requires a bachelor's degree for teaching positions at state universities.
Do you actually know this is true, or are you just making it up?

I did a little digging around and found this in ODU's faculty handbook about their faculty positions known as artists-in-residence: "The main criterion for reappointment is pre-eminence in an artistic field, and the normal academic credentials, such as advanced degrees or experience in university teaching, are not necessarily required." In other words, you don't have to have a college degree to teach as an artist-in-residence.

The faculty handbook also says the university's president may recommend to the Board of Visitors the establishment of other nontenured positions to allow the appointment of persons distinguished in their fields.

I know this is an extremely rare position, and one that only applies in the arts, but that's what Ryan was in, right? When I was pursuing my graduate studies out West, the most famous creative writing faculty member in the English department didn't have a college degree. However, their books were widely known and celebrated, and so the lack of a degree didn't matter.

All of this is to say that if Ed had wanted to keep Ryan around, he could've found a way. If he couldn't have hired him as a tenured faculty member, he probably could've hired him as an artist-in-residence. Or the university president could've created a position for him.

Those things didn't happen, and now our band is pretty average. This doesn't just hurt the game-day experience, but it also effects our marketing. How much publicity was Ryan able to procure for the Peppas while he was here? Way more than the new guy, right?

I understand Ryan's personality might have been larger than life, and maybe he hard to deal with or something. I don't know and I don't care. Ed could have and should have found a way to make it work.
 

mrgeode

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Do you actually know this is true, or are you just making it up?

I did a little digging around and found this in ODU's faculty handbook about their faculty positions known as artists-in-residence: "The main criterion for reappointment is pre-eminence in an artistic field, and the normal academic credentials, such as advanced degrees or experience in university teaching, are not necessarily required." In other words, you don't have to have a college degree to teach as an artist-in-residence.

The faculty handbook also says the university's president may recommend to the Board of Visitors the establishment of other nontenured positions to allow the appointment of persons distinguished in their fields.

I know this is an extremely rare position, and one that only applies in the arts, but that's what Ryan was in, right? When I was pursuing my graduate studies out West, the most famous creative writing faculty member in the English department didn't have a college degree. However, their books were widely known and celebrated, and so the lack of a degree didn't matter.

All of this is to say that if Ed had wanted to keep Ryan around, he could've found a way. If he couldn't have hired him as a tenured faculty member, he probably could've hired him as an artist-in-residence. Or the university president could've created a position for him.

Those things didn't happen, and now our band is pretty average. This doesn't just hurt the game-day experience, but it also effects our marketing. How much publicity was Ryan able to procure for the Peppas while he was here? Way more than the new guy, right?

I understand Ryan's personality might have been larger than life, and maybe he hard to deal with or something. I don't know and I don't care. Ed could have and should have found a way to make it work.
I know this is true. I'm not saying there wasn't the possibility of creating some sort of one-off/carve-out/permanent consulting sinecure, but clearly that didn't happen. Overall I would've probably preferred to keep the relationship but if the biggest misstep Ed has made this far is not creating a position for Ryan then it seems like he has a pretty good batting average. I also don't accept the premise that the band is materially different than when Ryan was associated with it.

Edit: Ryan wasn't part of the Fine Arts Department, he was part of (or at least under the umbrella of) the AD.
 
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N Mollen

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I mostly like Ed and don’t blame him for Shaka’s departure. He dropped the ball on Ryan and the Peppas though causing the home atmosphere to suffer. He also did have that mishap with volleyball early on.
IMHO, he did not, in fact, drop the ball on Ryan, unless you mean he waited too long and indulged his ego too much
 

Havoc City

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I know this is true. I'm not saying there wasn't the possibility of creating some sort of one-off/carve-out/permanent consulting sinecure, but clearly that didn't happen. Overall I would've probably preferred to keep the relationship but if the biggest misstep Ed has made this far is not creating a position for Ryan then it seems like he has a pretty good batting average. I also don't accept the premise that the band is materially different than when Ryan was associated with it.

Edit: Ryan wasn't part of the Fine Arts Department, he was part of (or at least under the umbrella of) the AD.
IMHO, he did not, in fact, drop the ball on Ryan, unless you mean he waited too long and indulged his ego too much
I'm genuinely fascinated by this perspective, and I'm not being ironic or a smarta$$ when I say that. I've heard people say they don't notice a difference in the gameday experience, but from my perspective, the difference is day and night. It's interesting that two people can experience the same event so differently.

Anyway, I know Ryan wasn't part of the Fine Arts department. My point, which I think you'd agree with, is that Ed could've found a way to pay him more and/or give him a full-time job if he'd wanted to do so, despite Ryan not having a degree.

Finally, even if you're right about the performance of the band, which I respectfully don't think you are, I imagine you'd still agree that Ryan was much, much better at branding and marketing the band than the new guy. You'll concede that point, right???
 

mrgeode

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I'm genuinely fascinated by this perspective, and I'm not being ironic or a smarta$$ when I say that. I've heard people say they don't notice a difference in the gameday experience, but from my perspective, the difference is day and night. It's interesting that two people can experience the same event so differently.

Anyway, I know Ryan wasn't part of the Fine Arts department. My point, which I think you'd agree with, is that Ed could've found a way to pay him more and/or give him a full-time job if he'd wanted to do so, despite Ryan not having a degree.

Finally, even if you're right about the performance of the band, which I respectfully don't think you are, I imagine you'd still agree that Ryan was much, much better at branding and marketing the band than the new guy. You'll concede that point, right???
Sure, I agree there was probably some avenue to finding a permanent position and also that Ryan was great at creating and promoting a brand. My mention of Fine Arts was just to draw attention to what I would imagine are a different set of parameters Ed had to work with. I have a difficult time imagining Dr. Rao and/or the Board of Visitors getting involved with something like this, though - I liked Ryan, but for all his talent, he was a part-time band director. I'm not saying he didn't add value to the program, but letting a band director go is not the kind of thing that rises to direct intervention by a university president, even one like Dr. Rao who seems to have a pretty clear understanding of the added reach athletics provides.

As far as game day experience goes, I think the Peppas did a great job with Ryan and they've done a great job post-Ryan. The last game I went to in person was against GW in February of 2020. I brought my in-laws and niece and nephew. The in-laws have been to dozens of games but it was the first time for the teenagers. We all had a blast and I thought the atmosphere was great, even in the midst of an injury-riddled season with some weird locker room vibes. The Peppas were a big part of that atmosphere, just as they have been since my first game (Capel's last year they were most of the reason to go). I dunno, maybe I'm a philistine, lol.
 

N Mollen

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I'm genuinely fascinated by this perspective, and I'm not being ironic or a smarta$$ when I say that. I've heard people say they don't notice a difference in the gameday experience, but from my perspective, the difference is day and night. It's interesting that two people can experience the same event so differently.

Anyway, I know Ryan wasn't part of the Fine Arts department. My point, which I think you'd agree with, is that Ed could've found a way to pay him more and/or give him a full-time job if he'd wanted to do so, despite Ryan not having a degree.

Finally, even if you're right about the performance of the band, which I respectfully don't think you are, I imagine you'd still agree that Ryan was much, much better at branding and marketing the band than the new guy. You'll concede that point, right???
I didn't comment on the performance of the band, although the playing is not materially different so far as I can tell. And I don't know or particularly want to bash Ryan as a human being. I'll just say that (a) the band is item 1,734 on my list of most important things about the program, and therefore of concern to the AD; (b) the band director was occupied positions 1-2,000 of importance to the band director; and (c) I don't think the interests of VCU basketball, or VCU more broadly, are advanced materially by having some doughy dude strip to the waist and do the bump and grind at basketball games.

The band director "issue" has consumed 100,000% more space on this board and in the AD's consciousness than it ever deserved.
 
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