The Offense

Mar 2, 2014
3,234
4,610
Just reading this thread @Mistachill you ok? And @Newboy troll. đź‘ş

-------------------
Go RAMS!
Beat Crimson Tide!!
Trolling is defined as creating discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages in an online community. Basically, a social media troll is someone who purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.
 

VCU85

Top Member
Jan 26, 2016
4,240
6,802
Trolling is defined as creating discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages in an online community. Basically, a social media troll is someone who purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.
There are posters who give trolling a bad name..... A good troll Brings a bit of humor to the situation in my opinion.
 

PRock

Top Member
Insider
Feb 9, 2010
4,951
9,830
@PRock but he says those things like it's some hidden revelation. Everyone and their toddler knows we turn the ball over too much.
Agree, but they sure go into detail to “prove” their point.......there’s usually a nugget or two of insight. I get it, not everyone’s cup-o-tea, but I find them a decent read.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ramdog

GuardTheArc

Top Member
Dec 4, 2014
707
1,105
Updated..........

Smart (5 NCAAs; 27 wins per yr; Avg KP Offense = 65)
2011:
KP Offense #47; 71.6 ppg; 4 in double figures; 28 wins - 11.2 turnovers/game (66 possessions); shooting slash line 43/37/72
2012: KP Offense #96; 68.0 ppg; 3 in double figures; 29 wins - 11.5 turnovers/game (65 possessions); shooting slash line 41/33/69
2013: KP Offense #20; 77.0 ppg; 4 in double figures; 27 wins - 12.0 turnovers/game (66 possessions); shooting slash line 45/35/70
2014: KP Offense #106; 75.0 ppg; 3 in double figures; 26 wins - 12.2 turnovers/game (69 possessions); shooting slash line 42/35/67
2015: KP Offense #58; 72.5 ppg; 2 in double figures; 26 wins - 10.7 turnovers/game (67 possessions); shooting slash line 42/34/66

Wade (2 NCAAs; 26 wins per yr; Avg KP Offense = 65)
2016:
KP Offense #58; 77.2 ppg; 4 in double figures; 25 wins - 11.5 turnovers/game (70 possessions); shooting slash line 45/35/69
2017: KP Offense #72; 74.7 ppg; 2 in double figures; 26 wins - 12.5 turnovers/game (69 possessions); shooting slash line 46/33/71

Rhoades (1 NCAA; 20 wins per yr; Avg KP Offense = 147)
2018:
KP Offense #149; 76.0 ppg; 2 in double figures; 18 wins - 13.5 turnovers/game (71 possessions); shooting slash line 46/35/69
2019: KP Offense #177; 71.0 ppg; 4 in double figures; 25 wins - 14.0 turnovers/game (68 possessions); shooting slash line 44/30/70
2020: KP Offense #138; 70.7 ppg; 2 in double figures; 18 wins - 12.3 turnovers/game (69 possessions); shooting slash line 43/35/70

2021: KP Offense #125; 74.2 ppg; 2 in double figures; 12 wins - 15.8 turnovers/game (71 possessions); shooting slash line 46/34/75

The offense is "still" a major concern (and borderline liability):
1) We are now pretty much good for 15-17 turnovers a game (on the regular), regardless of opponent -- 22% TO rate (alarming)
2) We are pretty much a "one point per possession" offense without a real identity (mediocre)
3) We have little flow and rhythm to our offense; very choppy, sporadic, inconsistent; substitution patterns, minutes allocations, helter skelter playing style/approach, established (and questionable) player roles, lack of skills development/progress (by some), and some spotty decision-making all contributing to a disjointed and "less efficient" result despite an acceptable shooting slash line of 46/34/75
4) We are overly reliant on one player (Hyland) to generate offense (for himself and others) in the half court and "bail us out" in late clock/tight/confusing situations
5) We have exactly one reliable volume deep threat on the squad (and he may only be with us on the floor for 6-7 more weeks)


The defense, though metrically/statistically stout on a per possession basis, is still a risky venture (with a somewhat rigid coaching staff) and vulnerable when facing quality offensive opponents. We've faced just 5 opponents with "Top 100 KP offenses" thus far (and we are 1-4 against those teams):
1) Rhody - 83 points (loss)
2) W Va - 78 points (loss)
3) Penn St - 72 points (loss)
4) Bonny - 70 points (loss)
--------------------------------------------
5) Dayton - 43 points (win)

We've even surrendered a bunch of points (albeit many of them late) to some "Sub 100 KP offense" squads:
1) JMU - 81 points (win)
2) GW - 77 points (win)

With 8 "Top 100 KP offenses" on the horizon (in our remaining 11 conference games - assuming a full slate), we'll see if this defense is as "elite" as some (including the KP metrics) claim it to be (or indicate that it is).
 

PRock

Top Member
Insider
Feb 9, 2010
4,951
9,830
2021: KP Offense #125; 74.2 ppg; 2 in double figures; 12 wins - 15.8 turnovers/game (71 possessions); shooting slash line 46/34/75

The offense is "still" a major concern (and borderline liability):
1) We are now pretty much good for 15-17 turnovers a game (on the regular), regardless of opponent -- 22% TO rate (alarming)
2) We are pretty much a "one point per possession" offense without a real identity (mediocre)
3) We have little flow and rhythm to our offense; very choppy, sporadic, inconsistent; substitution patterns, minutes allocations, helter skelter playing style/approach, established (and questionable) player roles, lack of skills development/progress (by some), and some spotty decision-making all contributing to a disjointed and "less efficient" result despite an acceptable shooting slash line of 46/34/75
4) We are overly reliant on one player (Hyland) to generate offense (for himself and others) in the half court and "bail us out" in late clock/tight/confusing situations
5) We have exactly one reliable volume deep threat on the squad (and he may only be with us on the floor for 6-7 more weeks)


The defense, though metrically/statistically stout on a per possession basis, is still a risky venture (with a somewhat rigid coaching staff) and vulnerable when facing quality offensive opponents. We've faced just 5 opponents with "Top 100 KP offenses" thus far (and we are 1-4 against those teams):
1) Rhody - 83 points (loss)
2) W Va - 78 points (loss)
3) Penn St - 72 points (loss)
4) Bonny - 70 points (loss)
--------------------------------------------
5) Dayton - 43 points (win)

We've even surrendered a bunch of points (albeit many of them late) to some "Sub 100 KP offense" squads:
1) JMU - 81 points (win)
2) GW - 77 points (win)

With 8 "Top 100 KP offenses" on the horizon (in our remaining 11 conference games - assuming a full slate), we'll see if this defense is as "elite" as some (including the KP metrics) claim it to be (or indicate that it is).
Agree there are issues on offense, most notable is the high TO rate, though I think your assessment of the offensive flow is heavily biased and not entirely accurate as just moving the TO rate to the average would increase offensive efficiency to ~1.07, good for ~85th in the nation— not great, but doesn’t line up with the “choppy, sporadic, inconsistent“ monikers.

As for the continued skepticism on the elite nature of the defense, disregarding the debacle vs. URI (102 ranked offense), consider the following;

West Virginia is avg ~1.145 points per possession (ppp); vs. VCU that number was 1.03; good for .115 below their avg
Penn State is avg ~1.142 ppp; vs VCU that number was .99; good for .152 below their avg
St Bonaventure is avg ~1.096 ppp; vs VCU that number was 1.04; good for .056 below their avg.

Going by the stats overall, the NCAA D1 avg is 1.017 points per possessio; VCU’s defense allows ~.901 ppp— good for ~.116 below avg. Versus both WVU and Penn State— VCU actually outperformed the statistical expectation. Versus Bona, VCU was not as good as usual, but still held them below expectation despite a collective breakdown in the second half.

Totally agree that the ability to improve on offense mainly through reducing TOs, while maintaining the defensive performance is the key to whether this team will dance. Also agree February will be the proving ground for whether this super young team is ahead of schedule or not, but that is not news, that is pretty much the norm every year in the A10.

Can definitely appreciate the consistent siren’s cry on the offensive TOs, just a small improvement there would be meaningful for offensive efficiency and would also improve the already stellar defensive efficiency a little as well. I am puzzled though, by the continued cynicism around the defense— going through game by game, it is hardly a statistical artifact, it is very real. Much in the same vein as your first point above regarding TOs. At some point, the staff deserves some credit for what they have done well with this team, as much as they deserve critiques for what they haven’t.
 
Last edited:

VCU85

Top Member
Jan 26, 2016
4,240
6,802
I'm just so happy GTA has provided this post so I can stop being happy about the win yesterday.... I feel so much better now that I have the silly sh*t out of my system, now I can concentrate on how much they suck again...

Ahhhh ........All is right in the world again....
 

LQuarles

Top Member
Insider
Mar 10, 2012
4,502
8,064
Seeing CelticGuy like GTA’s derogatory post is just a shield for both of them while they cope with their ex-lover WW losing his team down in Baton Rouge. VCUs offense needs work, but LSU does not play actual defense.
Celtic's silence is deafening and sad. And once we improve at the turnovers and the offensive efficiency shoots up, they'll still be silent or negative. Hopefully they post to their hearts' content in the FB Good, Bad, and Ugly group.

I bet if Wade got banned from coaching in the NCAAT again, his guys will play hard and make another run like two years ago.
 
Dec 16, 2013
611
891
I recognize our fans are entitled to their opinions so here is mine on our offense

Bones is our only current player with an ability to create offense and who we need the ball in his hands when the shot clock is under 5 seconds (NBA recognizes his potential and no he is still a work-in-progress) I am biased but I see no other player in the A10 with as much as NBA potential at this juncture
Never been a big fan of our base offensive pattern under MR but like most offenses, if the players execute appropriately and crisply it will create lots of open looks and just as importantly it is an offense that makes the defense guard all 5 players (which can create space for Bones)
Turnovers are too high for me but I accept a higher rate because of our pace and the fact that all 5 players touch the ball in our offense that makes our opponents work hard on D that can be an advantage if they lack depth/conditioning - sometimes you also have to give the other team credit for their defense too like LaSalle does a great job of challenging passing lanes etc
We still lack a second dependable scorer (great teams usually have 3 and top 25 teams usually have at least 2) and someone that can get to the rim besides Bones - periodically we see ACE, Tre, Curry and Vince attack but none have shown any consistency in finishing and a few end up turning ball over when attacking
Ward is starting to look comfortable on the offensive end but reality is his points come from great alley oop passes from our guards , offensive stickbacks and are significantly helped by Ward's effort/ability to run from rim to rim - but I have seen no/limited ability for a mid range jumper or even a power game around the basket and very limited ability to put ball on floor and attack (though he had a great one vs Rhode Island at the Stu) - we are a better team with Ward playing 22+ minutes because of his high motor and higher ceiling

I am not sure I have seen any team in the A10 that I would rave about their offense (before you comment I haven't seen SLU in more than one game so the jury is out there)
We are young (at least in the key cogs on our offense) so I am not surprised we have been challenged to respond to late game adversity - hopefully February will allow this team to further mature and to do that

Like many on this board, I am quite pleased with the 20-21 version of the Rams
Go rams
 
Last edited:

KentuckyRam

Insider
Jul 16, 2009
869
1,100
I recognize our fans are entitled to their opinions so here is mine on our offense

Bones is our only current player with an ability to create offense and who we need the ball in his hands when the shot clock is under 5 seconds (NBA recognizes his potential and no he is still a work-in-progress) I am biased but I see no other player in the A10 with as much as NBA potential at this juncture
Never been a big fan of our base offensive pattern under MR but like most offenses, if the players execute appropriately and crisply it will create lots of open looks and just as importantly it is an offense that makes the defense guard all 5 players (which can create space for Bones)
Turnovers are too high for me but I accept a higher rate because of our pace and the fact that all 5 players touch the ball in our offense that makes our opponents work hard on D that can be an advantage if they lack depth/conditioning - sometimes you also have to give the other team credit for their defense too like LaSalle does a great job of challenging passing lanes etc
We still lack a second dependable scorer (great teams usually have 3 and top 25 teams usually have at least 2) and someone that can get to the rim besides Bones - periodically we see ACE, Tre, Curry and Vince attack but none have shown any consistency in finishing and a few end up turning ball over when attacking
Ward is starting to look comfortable on the offensive end but reality is his points come from great alley oop passes from our guards , offensive stickbacks and are significantly helped by Ward's effort/ability to run from rim to rim - but I have seen no/limited ability for a mid range jumper or even a power game around the basket and very limited ability to put ball on floor and attack (though he had a great one vs Rhode Island at the Stu) - we are a better team with Ward playing 22+ minutes because of his high motor and higher ceiling

I am not sure I have seen any team in the A10 that I would rave about their offense (before you comment I haven't seen SLU in more than one game so the jury is out there)
We are young (at least in the key cogs on our offense) so I am not surprised we have been challenged to respond to late game adversity - hopefully February will allow this team to further mature and to do that

Like many on these board, I am quite pleased with the 20-21 version of the Rams
Go rams
Watkins looked to be that second scorer for a while and will hopefully reemerge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: enonram
Feb 14, 2011
1,341
1,455
Celtic's silence is deafening and sad. And once we improve at the turnovers and the offensive efficiency shoots up, they'll still be silent or negative. Hopefully they post to their hearts' content in the FB Good, Bad, and Ugly group.

I bet if Wade got banned from coaching in the NCAAT again, his guys will play hard and make another run like two years ago.

Just a general comment and not directed at anyone in particular but it seems a good number of basketball fans seem to suffer from analysis paralysis more now than they ever have in the past. I don't really know why, maybe all the data (some pretty useless, just ask Vegas) you could want on the internet, maybe the game simulations from video games, maybe fantasy sports, maybe it's makes a person appear more knowledgeable when they can recite stats. Some folks love the stats/numbers, for me once I started paying less attention to most of it, I found myself enjoying the games so much more and I think I can see the bigger picture in real time.
 

VCU85

Top Member
Jan 26, 2016
4,240
6,802
Just a general comment and not directed at anyone in particular but it seems a good number of basketball fans seem to suffer from analysis paralysis more now than they ever have in the past. I don't really know why, maybe all the data (some pretty useless, just ask Vegas) you could want on the internet, maybe the game simulations from video games, maybe fantasy sports, maybe it's makes a person appear more knowledgeable when they can recite stats. Some folks love the stats/numbers, for me once I started paying less attention to most of it, I found myself enjoying the games so much more and I think I can see the bigger picture in real time.
The phrase "I was told there'd be no math" is a valuable touchstone concept to live by.