The Official Beat the Kennesaw State Owls at the Stu Thread

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I don't know much about basketball can someone explain why our two top 150 ranked freshman aren't getting serious burn and being built around.

I haven't been following closely so sorry if it's been covered.
 

Mistachill

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So let's see the data.
Well here it is, home record by coach to date (feel free to correct my math):

MR - 68-18, 79.1%
Wade - 30-3, 90.9%
Shaka - 84-11, 88.4%
Grant - 37-5, 88.1%
Capel - 47-12, 79.7%
McCarthy - 46-11, 80.7%

Some footnotes:

1) MR's next home loss will equal the total home loses of Wade, Shaka and Grant combined.

2) I'm sure someone will post that you have to throw out MR's first season. No. You can't cherry pick seasons to toss out to make the numbers fit your narrative. You could go though every season and toss out data for various reasons. As Bill Parcells famously said, you are what your record says you are.

3) I totally forgot the knock on McCarthy. He was pretty solid at home, couldn't win on the road.

4) Say what you want about Wade, he got it done at home.
 
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Well here it is, home record by coach to date (feel free to correct my math):

MR - 68-18, 79.1%
Wade - 30-3, 90.9%
Shaka - 84-11, 88.4%
Grant - 37-5, 88.1%
Capel - 47-12, 79.7%
McCarthy - 46-11, 80.7%

Some footnotes:

1) MR's next home loss will equal the total home loses of Wade, Shaka and Grant combined.

2) I'm sure someone will post that you have to throw out MR's first season. No. You can't cherry pick seasons to toss out to make the numbers fit your narrative. You could go though every season and toss out data for various reasons. As Bill Parcells famously said, you are what your record says you are.

3) I totally forgot the knock on McCarthy. He was pretty solid at home, couldn't win on the road.

4) Say what you want about Wade, he got it done at home.

Interestingly Wade never made the worst losses list either. Every loss was close. Something the committee I’m sure looked at. Didn’t matter if they were playing #5 Duke or Dayton on their home floor. They were narrow losses.
 
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HBK

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Your repeated argument here (and I could have selected any of your recent posts) feels weak.

Forget any stats. It's the eye test. We have not looked good this year. At all. Now folks might differ on how or when or why we will or won't get better. But you're basically asserting that we're a good team currently being challenged.

The reality is we haven't given any indication that we're a good team.

That may happen. I'm rooting for it to happen! But it's exhausting when some people feel it's a kind of betrayal to point out the obvious about how we're actually playing.
Well, opinions vary.

Go back and show me any post in which I stated that we were a good team being challenged. I won't wait because I'm pretty certain I haven't said that at all as it relates to this season. The assertion you claim is in your mind only, apparently, because I haven't asserted that once.

The Houston example and others I could cite are about a single game in which a team favored to win against what is considered an inferior opponent played poorly. We were heavily favored last night, looked bad for much of the game and barely won. Houston had the same thing happen to them last night. Houston is an example of a very good team looking horrible. I could cite other examples from this season, too. That's it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying we're as good as Houston (we're not); I'm not even saying we are a good team, yet. We have potential, but potential is a word used for a player or team who hasn't actually accomplished anything to that point. However, the games by Houston and VCU last night are examples of what I just stated a couple of sentences above. Nothing more, nothing less. If you read more into it than that, then it's on you.

Now to be very clear, because some posters like to put words into people's mouths and accuse others of saying or typing things they haven't, let me say it so even a child could understand: VCU hasn't played well offensively for more than a few stretches this season. Thus, we haven't been a good basketball team for more than stretches through six games. The first half against Manhattan and the second half against Kennesaw State come to mind. There have been some stretches in every other game, in which we looked pretty good offensively. Those stretches were large in some games and miniscule in others. There are lots of REASONS for this. (I have to distinguish between a reason and an excuse because, sadly, some posters on RamNation don't understand the difference between the two.) The reasons range from playing without our best player and PG, which has caused Nunn to play on the ball more, where he is clearly not as comfortable, to integrating several new players into different roles to which they are unaccustomed. (Last night we played the last 34 minutes without our most versatile offensive weapon (Watkins), and that matters because it means more minutes for other guys who clearly aren't ready to contribute much on the offensive end of the floor.) Another reason for our struggles is that Mike and our staff like to give these guys lots of freedom on the court. It's not like we're the only team who plays this brand of offense, many do. So far we've not proven that we deserve that much freedom on offense, but that's up to the coaches. Coaches coach and players play. As I've said before, basketball is a simple game, but it isn't easy.

Finally, I choose to look at the bright side: we haven't even come close to playing well for more than a half or so in any one game. Yet, we are 4-2 with some good opportunities coming up. For all I know, we could be 4-4 by next Sunday, or we could be 6-2. Maybe we found something in the 2nd half last night (shot 55% from the field and 50% from three) that we can build on. Nunn playing off the ball more seemed like it worked. He's obviously more comfortable off the ball. We have not looked good most of this season on offense, but players and teams can improve as the season progresses, and I've seen glimpses of what we can be. Example: last night was Fats' best game. Stats may not show it, but he didn't look as lost as he has in the previous five games. Hopefully, the freshmen, all of whom have potential (there's that word again), will start to "get it" and become contributors at both ends of the floor. We're not there yet, and like you, I hope we get there soon.
 
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HBK

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Interestingly Wade never made the worst losses list either. Every loss was close. Something the committee I’m sure looked at. Didn’t matter if they were playing #5 Duke or Dayton on their home floor. They were narrow losses.
Does those narrow losses include when Illinois beat us like a drum 64-46? How about in that A10 title game when St. Joe's shot over 60% and led us by 20 with about 7-8 minutes left, and we never challenged?

I feel I need to be extra clear with you: Point is that EVERY coach takes beatdowns. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

HBK

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Well here it is, home record by coach to date (feel free to correct my math):

MR - 68-18, 79.1%
Wade - 30-3, 90.9%
Shaka - 84-11, 88.4%
Grant - 37-5, 88.1%
Capel - 47-12, 79.7%
McCarthy - 46-11, 80.7%

Some footnotes:

1) MR's next home loss will equal the total home loses of Wade, Shaka and Grant combined.

2) I'm sure someone will post that you have to throw out MR's first season. No. You can't cherry pick seasons to toss out to make the numbers fit your narrative. You could go though every season and toss out data for various reasons. As Bill Parcells famously said, you are what your record says you are.

3) I totally forgot the knock on McCarthy. He was pretty solid at home, couldn't win on the road.

4) Say what you want about Wade, he got it done at home.
That Parcells quote is a great one. I use that one a lot.

Even if you did throw out the first season, Mike's home record still isn't as good as the Grant, Shaka, Wade triumvirate. That's just a fact. However, as you said, you cannot throw it out. I've never thought you could throw it out because it happened. What I have said is that I give Mike a pass on season one because of what he inherited. Throwing it out and giving a pass are different things, just to be clear.

The home records of Rhoades, Capel, and McCarthy are essentially a wash, which I find interesting. Many give Capel the credit for getting us headed in the direction we went, but Mack's contributions are overlooked. His last year was pretty good, and he left Capel with some good pieces.

I'm still "friendly" with Will, and even he would tell you that inheriting a roster of experienced juniors (and a senior) made his life much easier. I know this because he's said it publicly and to me personally. He's still a darn good coach, but his personality, style, and other things get him into trouble at times. (I know that's a Captain Obvious understatement!)

We need to get back to winning 85% or more of our home games. Got to protect our house first.
 
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Does those narrow losses include when Illinois beat us like a drum 64-46? How about in that A10 title game when St. Joe's shot over 60% and led us by 20 with about 7-8 minutes left, and we never challenged?

I feel I need to be extra clear with you: Point is that EVERY coach takes beatdowns. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ok my bad the list I pulled from a post last year was a year off on that game. Regardless Wade had what 2 bad losses? That’s nothing compared to the amount of bad losses we’ve taken under Rhoades.
 

TampaKAP

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I don't know much about basketball can someone explain why our two top 150 ranked freshman aren't getting serious burn and being built around.

I haven't been following closely so sorry if it's been covered.
Simple answer. The staff values defense over offense. I am not saying i agree or disagree with the approach but it is clear that missing defensive assignments gets them yanked
 

HBK

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Ok my bad the list I pulled from a post last year was a year off on that game. Regardless Wade had what 2 bad losses? That’s nothing compared to the amount of bad losses we’ve taken under Rhoades.
Agreed. We've had some beatdowns the last few years. I hate losing anywhere, but getting beat down at home is something that should never happen, which is why that Dayton game last season was so disappointing.
 

2012Ram

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How much have we improved from game 1 this year to game 6? No doubt a team can get better over the course of the year... but have we?
 
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It’s crazy to see old clips of the ACC back in 1983-1984, when the new 3-point arc was INSIDE the freaking top of the key!!! Imagine that line in today’s game.
I imagine VCU going 4-16 at that distance against Kennesaw St, whoever they are.
 
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