The Official Beat the Kennesaw State Owls at the Stu Thread

[92VCUpikapp]

The only NIT game that matters is the Championship game. And even then, no one outside the programs playing really give 2 sh!ts.

 

[Mr X]

Sometimes parents don’t have the knowledge or experience to deal with these situations. They have jobs, other kids, and haven’t had a kid recruited by D1 schools. Then there are high school coaches, college coaches, AAU coaches, recruiting services, media, and other people all involved and trying to have influence.

Recruting is crazy, for a parent as well.

 

[RamDanFan]

yeah I heard they are eliminating it. taking the coward way out imo.

Chicks dig the long ball.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

Chicks dig the long ball.

maybe so.... but lemme ask you this... which would chicks dig more? Striking out at the plate.... or being smart & legging out a bunt for a base hit against the shift.

In the basketball sense.... what do you think chicks dig more? Bricking three after 3, or attacking the basket & possibly getting an old fashion 3 pt play?

 

[VCU Heel]

maybe so.... but lemme ask you this... which would chicks dig more? Striking out at the plate.... or being smart & legging out a bunt for a base hit against the shift.

In the basketball sense.... what do you think chicks dig more? Bricking three after 3, or attacking the basket & possibly getting an old fashion 3 pt play?

Baseball is trying to speed up the game because it’s losing a ton of fans. Most people don’t want to watch 3.5+ hour games. This is part of a business decision. They want to increase scoring while also shortening the games.

 

[Mistachill]

A reasonably intelligent person can discern the difference between an excuse and a reason. Nevertheless, if we had a couple of seasons in a row without an NCAA or NIT bid, or we weren't legitimately competing for an A10 title, or our recruiting was getting worse, etc., then I think a coaching switch would be warranted. We aren't close to those yet. We've been to post-season play in 3 of the last 4 years. I'll repeat myself for emphasis: not winning NCAA games is a potential problem, but how can anyone blame Mike for being 0-1 in two NCAA tournament appearances? We aren't lacking an NCAA Tournament win because of his coaching tactics or style. Our best player, Marcus Evans, who led us in points, assists and steals, and was a first team all A10 player, was badly injured a week before the NCAA tournament and tried to play at no better than 75%. How would that Duke game have gone in 2007 if Maynor was playing at 75% from an injury suffered the week before? We lose that game. Surely, there aren't people blaming the coaches for having our 2021 NCAA tournament game canceled due to a Covid outbreak! So, again, how can anyone blame Mike for not having a win in his two appearances? Sometimes poop happens.

Raising an NIT banner isn't a source of pride and it should NEVER be the goal. Every once-in-a-while, it's not a bad consolation prize. If we were a perennial NIT team, then that would be a big problem, because that is not the goal. I'm disappointed if we don't make the NCAA Tournament, but its not a birthright for all but a handful of schools. As I mentioned yesterday, recent national champion and current top 5 school UVA, played in it last year. Obviously their coaches and players didn't look down on the opportunity.

Regarding fans not showing up for an NIT game, that is mostly standard across the college basketball landscape, one would think. UVA had 5,000 people at JPJ for their 1st round NIT game last year, which is about 1/3 capacity; they were about half full for their NIT Quarterfinal loss to the Bonnies last season. Here's where I'm sure to get blowback because some chronically offended person reading this will get upset, but here goes; please note that I am only speaking about this as it relates to NIT attendance, not season-ticket sales, not regular season games, etc.: by and large, most fans are fair weather fans. At the first sign of disappointment, they refuse to support "their team" unless it is the NCAA Tournament. It's not just VCU, but everywhere (see UVA example). Was I thrilled to be playing in the NIT last season? No. It was a disappointment, and leaving the conference tournament in D.C. after the loss to UR was as disappointed as I've been at a conference tournament since the 2008 loss to Bill & Mary in the CAA semifinals. It sucked, and I knew we were no longer a potential NCAA Tournament team. I say again: It sucked! Regardless, my team, my alma mater, the school to which I donate, had another game to play against Princeton, so I showed up and cheered, as I did at the other two NIT games you referenced because that's what a supporter of a team should do, in my opinion. (Obviously, these post-season games are scheduled on VERY short notice, so there will always be people who cannot attend because of that short notice, which is completely understandable.)

We, as a collective group on here, spend a lot of time comparing our coaches to each other, which makes for good message board fodder. However, the reality is that none of these are apples-to-apples comparisons. The landscape of college athletics changes quickly. Wade was fantastic, but he inherited an experienced roster of upperclassmen in an weakened A-10, the afterglow of the Final Four still in effect, and an athletic department overflowing with donations. To Will's credit, he kept the train rolling forward, though some cracks were starting to show after Shaka left. What Shaka dealt with is completely different than what Grant dealt with when he was here, and on and on. Each situation has its own unique backdrop. That's all I mean when I speak about context and nuance when comparing coaches.

Am I thrilled to be 4-2 this season? No. I wanted to be 31-0 in the regular season. As a fan, I can rationalize in my mind that we'll go 40-0 and win the national title each season. As an adult human being, with some measure of intellect and common sense, I know that perfection is mostly unattainable in college basketball, which is why it hasn't been done since 1976. I have incredibly high standards professionally, personally and for VCU basketball. What I realistically want (hope for) is NCAA Tournament appearances almost every year and a Sweet 16 run every 3-4 years at worst. That's what I want. However, I understand how difficult it is to win consistently and to maintain it at any school, especially one from a non-Power 5 conference. I also choose to integrate the realities of what has gone on (injuries, bad luck, etc.) into my calculations of how someone is doing at the helm of a program. I don't see the degradation of the program that some fans see. That's not to suggest that everything is great either. As there are in most things, a vast middle ground exists.

Apologize for the length. Appreciate what you do on here and on your YouTube page. Peace.

I appreciate your thorough post and though I may not agree I understand your position. But here are a couple of bottom lines for me:

1) You can find "reasons" to explain every bad loss, disappointing season, failed coaching tenure etc. This is a bottom line business and no matter the "reason" if we're not achieving our goals as a program under a coach, I'm sorry but bad luck/bad breaks shouldn't give him a pass to continue on coaching unless we've lowered the bar. It's the cliche about the definition of insanity.

2) Regarding Evans, we had him for the entirety of the season after the NCAA game against UCF. What was the "reason" for that season turning out like it did? If you want to reference the Evans injury and Covid for not having any NCAA wins, fine. We didn't have NCAA wins in three other seasons because we missed the tournament.

3) We are never going to be on the same page regarding the NIT. Being OK with NIT appearances and thinking occasionally it's "not a bad consolation prize" is not something I'll ever co-sign on. If we have a season where we were expected to be garbage and we found our way to the NIT, maybe. But even that masks the bigger issue, why were we expected to be garbage in the first place? Either way, something is not right.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. But if we regress to being at the level we were during the Capel years, please don't judge fans for their level of support regressing to Capel years as well.

 

[RamDanFan]

maybe so.... but lemme ask you this... which would chicks dig more? Striking out at the plate.... or being smart & legging out a bunt for a base hit against the shift.

In the basketball sense.... what do you think chicks dig more? Bricking three after 3, or attacking the basket & possibly getting an old fashion 3 pt play?

Probably the home run and the occasional made 3 pointer.

Now my turn. What did/do you enjoy more when you were/are involved in the dating scene? Getting to 1st base or scoring a homerun?

 

[rambunctiousrowdyram]

Probably the home run and the occasional made 3 pointer.

Now my turn. What did/do you enjoy more when you were/are involved in the dating scene? Getting to 1st base or scoring a homerun?

Knowing Pkunk for over 15 years he focuses more on learning about the person/creating a solid connection than scoring tbh. Might be the wrong person to ask that.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

Probably the home run and the occasional made 3 pointer.

Now my turn. What did/do you enjoy more when you were/are involved in the dating scene? Getting to 1st base or scoring a homerun?

Well considering I'm not some player or only cares about one thing in a relationship... I enjoy the early stages of a relationship just as much as I do hitting a home run. You know why? Because you can't score a home run if you can't get to first base first.

If all I cared about was hitting a homerun.... I could go find someone looking for the same thing... hit the home run & then ditch them. But that's NOT my game. If that's your game... have fun with it. That's your priority, not mine. I think long term, not short term.

Just like when I played sports... I'm not trying to be someone I'm not. If I hit a home run, I hit a home run.... but my goal is to help my team win first. No matter what sport I'm playing. I could give a f**k less about being the star player, the Michael Jordan, Tom Brady or Barry Bonds on the field or the court.

Also, you didn't answer the question I asked. Home run was not an option in my question & neither was making an occasional 3 pointer. Maybe you have trouble reading... or maybe you just make up your own rules as you go along.

And if that's the case, I'm sure your relationships go swell... just don't be mad when the person you're dating is tired of playing your games or you making up the rules as you go along... and you end up striking out.

 

[HBK]

I appreciate your thorough post and though I may not agree I understand your position. But here are a couple of bottom lines for me:

1) You can find "reasons" to explain every bad loss, disappointing season, failed coaching tenure etc. This is a bottom line business and no matter the "reason" if we're not achieving our goals as a program under a coach, but I'm sorry but bad luck/bad breaks shouldn't give him a pass to continue on coaching unless we've lowered the bar. It's the cliche about the definition of insanity.

2) Regarding Evans, we had him for the entirety of the season after the NCAA game against UCF. What was the "reason" for that season turning out like it did? If you want to reference the Evans injury and Covid for not having any NCAA wins, fine. We didn't have NCAA wins in three other seasons because we missed the tournament.

3) We are never going to be on the same page regarding the NIT. Being OK with NIT appearances and thinking occasionally it's "not a bad consolation prize" is not something I'll ever co-sign on. If we have a season where we were expected to be garbage and we found our way in the NIT, maybe. But even that masks the bigger issue, why were we expected to be garbage in the first place? Either way, something is not right.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. But if we regress to being at the level we where during the Capel years, please don't judge fans for their level of support regressing to Capel years as well.

And I thank you for your reasonable reply. As you said, we’ll have to agree to disagree on some points, which is just fine. Life would be boring if we all agreed on every single thing.

However, I want to be clear regarding the NIT. I thought I had been, but perhaps not. I don’t consider going to the NIT a bad season if it is once every so often. It is disappointing when we don’t make the NCAA, but I don’t consider it a bad, or failed, season if we get an NIT bid every 5 years or so. Let me put it like this: If you told me that over the next five years we went to 4 NCAA Tournaments and 1 NIT, and won games in all, then I’d be OK with that. Now, if we were a perennial NIT team, with only sporadic NCAA appearances, then that’s a big problem.

You mentioned the 2019-2020 season, the season after Evans’ injury. Now, that was a bad season!! The coaches deserve the majority of the blame for it, too. Chemistry issues, if that’s what it was, is on the coaching staff as much as anyone else. There is no excusing that season! The reason it happened was because the entire program did a bad job. If it had happened again the following season, then I think we would need to start looking hard at what we’re doing. However, it didn’t happen again. Instead, we made the NCAA Tournament in 20-21, and suffered a bad stroke of luck with Covid.

Lastly, I know I was clear in talking about fan support. I was speaking ONLY about NIT game attendance. On that, I was absolutely clear. My reply to you had nothing to do with regressing to the Capel years or judging fans if it went back to that level.

Thank you for the reasonable discussion. I wish you and yours well this holiday season. Peace.

 

[Mistachill]

And I thank you for your reasonable reply. As you said, we’ll have to agree to disagree on some points, which is just fine. Life would be boring if we all agreed on every single thing.

However, I want to be clear regarding the NIT. I thought I had been, but perhaps not. I don’t consider going to the NIT a bad season if it is once every so often. It is disappointing when we don’t make the NCAA, but I don’t consider it a bad, or failed, season if we get an NIT bid every 5 years or so. Let me put it like this: If you told me that over the next five years we went to 4 NCAA Tournaments and 1 NIT, and won games in all, then I’d be OK with that. Now, if we were a perennial NIT team, with only sporadic NCAA appearances, then that’s a big problem.

You mentioned the 2019-2020 season, the season after Evans’ injury. Now, that was a bad season!! The coaches deserve the majority of the blame for it, too. Chemistry issues, if that’s what it was, is on the coaching staff as much as anyone else. There is no excusing that season! The reason it happened was because the entire program did a bad job. If it had happened again the following season, then I think we would need to start looking hard at what we’re doing. However, it didn’t happen again. Instead, we made the NCAA Tournament in 20-21, and suffered a bad stroke of luck with Covid.

Lastly, I know I was clear in talking about fan support. I was speaking ONLY about NIT game attendance. On that, I was absolutely clear. My reply to you had nothing to do with regressing to the Capel years or judging fans if it went back to that level.

Thank you for the reasonable discussion. I wish you and yours well this holiday season. Peace.

Final word on this then I'll let it go: 4 NCAAs and zero NITs vs 4 NCAAs and 1 NIT is the exact same to me.

I look back on the season after the final four. We had to replaced 4 of our top 5 rotation players and not only returned to the dance but won a first round game. We had a bunch of "reasons" to be content with an NIT that year but we had a coach who found a way to keep us in the national spotlight. I want us to return to that being the bar.

Peace.

Footnote: upon further reflection on the Evans discussion, 2015 didn't we lose our starting point guard (Weber) and proceeded to win the A-10 tournament and barely lose in OT to an Ohio State team with a guy good enough to be the 2nd pick in the NBA draft? Not sure if this is relevant to the discussion but sometimes a coach has to overcome stuff. Weber was arguable better defensively than Evans was offensively.

 

[theyaintwantit]

Final word on this then I'll let it go: 4 NCAAs and zero NITs vs 4 NCAAs and 1 NIT is the exact same to me.

I look back on the season after the final four. We had to replaced 4 of our top 5 rotation players and not only returned to the dance but won a first round game. We had a bunch of "reasons" to be content with an NIT that year but we had a coach who found a way to keep us in the national spotlight. I want us to return to that being the bar.

Peace.

2011-2012 was my freshman year. Fun team that took plenty of lumps that season: looked bad in the Charleston Classic, lost a home game to Georgia State in January, blew a road game at the buzzer at Mason on Valentine's Day, and barely hung on to a 16 point lead in the CAA Title game vs Drexel (thank god for Troy Daniels ice water free throws!).

I don't share your view on NIT appearances, but at the end of the day these are "opinions" from both of us so it doesn't really matter what either of us think. Both of us and many others are passionate Ram fans and that's what is more important. What does matter is that Chill provides a GRADE A Youtube service for VCU fans that I can't even begin to thank you for. With that said, do you have access to any of the following games:

2006-2007 - VCU vs Duke in NCAA Round of 64, and VCU vs Pitt in NCAA Round of 32.
2008-2009 - VCU vs ODU in CAA Semis, VCU vs UCLA in NCAA Round of 64
2014-2015 - ANY and ALL of the A10 Tournament games
2015-2016 - VCU at GW road W in February

 

[Gopher+RamFan]

Final word on this then I'll let it go: 4 NCAAs and zero NITs vs 4 NCAAs and 1 NIT is the exact same to me.

I look back on the season after the final four. We had to replaced 4 of our top 5 rotation players and not only returned to the dance but won a first round game. We had a bunch of "reasons" to be content with an NIT that year but we had a coach who found a way to keep us in the national spotlight. I want us to return to that being the bar.

Peace.

Footnote: upon further reflection on the Evans discussion, 2015 didn't we lose our starting point guard (Weber) and proceeded to win the A-10 tournament and barely lose in OT to an Ohio State team with a guy good enough to be the 2nd pick in the NBA draft? Not sure if this is relevant to the discussion but sometimes a coach has to overcome stuff. Weber was arguable better defensively than Evans was offensively.

I've said this on here before, but this was my favorite VCU season. I was still in school and things were amped up. No real expectations after losing so many starters from the season prior but you could tell we were getting better. Going to the Coliseum for the CAA championship was awesome, then almost making the Sweet 16 (up 3 against Indiana? Ugh). Felt like we could accomplish anything.

 

[Mistachill]

2011-2012 was my freshman year. Fun team that took plenty of lumps that season: looked bad in the Charleston Classic, lost a home game to Georgia State in January, blew a road game at the buzzer at Mason on Valentine's Day, and barely hung on to a 16 point lead in the CAA Title game vs Drexel (thank god for Troy Daniels ice water free throws!).

I don't share your view on NIT appearances, but at the end of the day these are "opinions" from both of us so it doesn't really matter what either of us think. Both of us and many others are passionate Ram fans and that's what is more important. What does matter is that Chill provides a GRADE A Youtube service for VCU fans that I can't even begin to thank you for. With that said, do you have access to any of the following games:

2006-2007 - VCU vs Duke in NCAA Round of 64, and VCU vs Pitt in NCAA Round of 32.
2008-2009 - VCU vs ODU in CAA Semis, VCU vs UCLA in NCAA Round of 64
2014-2015 - ANY and ALL of the A10 Tournament games
2015-2016 - VCU at GW road W in February

Well, here's the deal: the only time I've ever gotten copyright strikes on my channel was when I posted fairly recent NCAA games. Never had any issue with ESPN, CBS Sports, MASN, etc. But apparently the NCAA is out there like pit bulls to take down tournament content. Not sure how anybody else has been able to get around it. Fortunately the strikes only stick for around 6 months and they'll remove them if you've been a good boy (more than three strikes they'll shut you down).

In the past I may post something briefly and take it down before I get a strike. So I pretty much stay away from NCAA tournament content, which is unfortunate because they're the most compelling games.

I may have some of the other games you referenced. The mid 2000s was kinda a dark period for me as networks started making their broadcast so that it was difficult to record them on DVDs. Took awhile to get my current set up which has been working great for the time being.

 

[rambunctiousrowdyram]

I remember being at the 2011-2012 exhibition and a bunch of us were like well it’s a new team so let’s keep low expectations after seeing how we played. That team shocked everyone but also showed a winning culture which was already being built here can sometimes triumph logic.