The Official Beat the Kennesaw State Owls at the Stu Thread

theyaintwantit

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Uhh all we heard on RN all off season was that this team would have zero trouble scoring. Players were already getting drafted on here. Rhoades called it his deepest team. There were some that were very skeptical however when it came to certain transfers and recruiting. Nevermind the constant talk about Deloach set to dominate after his work this offseason.
No one said DeLo would “dominate”.
No one said VCU would have “zero” trouble scoring.
No one said “X player is getting drafted”.

MR did say this was his “deepest team” so 1 for 4 is decent for your low standards.
 

VCU Heel

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Nunn had a few NBA draft writers mention him as a potential 2023 second rounder. Is it a crime to share what a college basketball writer says about a VCU player? I don’t recall a single poster on here saying Nunn or any other player would leave every for the NBA.
There were a couple posters here talking about Tobi possibly jumping to the NBA after a year, which made my head hurt.
 
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No one said DeLo would “dominate”.
No one said VCU would have “zero” trouble scoring.
No one said “X player is getting drafted”.

MR did say this was his “deepest team” so 1 for 4 is decent for your low standards.

Wrong.

There were many posts all off season about Deloach set to break out because of the extra work he put all off season

There was a bunch of posts about the team would have no problem scoring. Especially after the black and gold game. There were people that were skeptical but as usual they were quieted.

There been lots of talk about Nunn and other potentially leaving after this season.
 

theyaintwantit

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Wrong.

There were many posts all off season about Deloach set to break out because of the extra work he put all off season

There was a bunch of posts about the team would have no problem scoring. Especially after the black and gold game. There were people that were skeptical but as usual they were quieted.

There been lots of talk about Nunn and other potentially leaving after this season.
“Dominate” isn’t the same word as “break out”. You moved the goal posts there.

Jarius Lyles was deemed a starter after the 2013 B&G game. Hot takes after the B&G happen. My knowledgeable suggestion is to ignore them.

What talks of players potentially LEAVING are you talking about? I would really like to see this because I check RN every day and do NOT recall this happening
 

Mr X

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Nunn had a few NBA draft writers mention him as a potential 2023 second rounder. Is it a crime to share what a college basketball writer says about a VCU player? I don’t recall a single poster on here saying Nunn or any other player would leave every for the NBA.
I'll fess up. I mentioned Ace.
 

2012Ram

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Excellent job cherry-picking a sentence without the rest of the paragraph, which puts it into context. Do you work for Fox News or MSNBC? :lol:
Speaking of cherry picking, you isolated Evans injury in our sole NCAAT appearance to absolve Mike's coaching style and tactics causing us to miss 3 other tournaments.

How does that make any sense?
 

HBK

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Speaking of cherry picking, you isolated Evans injury in our sole NCAAT appearance to absolve Mike's coaching style and tactics causing us to miss 3 other tournaments.

How does that make any sense?
Within the context of the discussion, I was speaking ONLY about our two appearances under Mike. Context is important, Sparky.
 

2012Ram

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Within the context of the discussion, I was speaking ONLY about our two appearances under Mike. Context is important, Sparky.
Is there anything that you do think Mike is to blame for? I don't think I've ever seen you chalk up anything bad that has happened under his time here that wasn't some "nuanced context, but guys I promise it isn't an excuse!"
 
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I appreciate your thorough post and though I may not agree I understand your position. But here are a couple of bottom lines for me:

1) You can find "reasons" to explain every bad loss, disappointing season, failed coaching tenure etc. This is a bottom line business and no matter the "reason" if we're not achieving our goals as a program under a coach, I'm sorry but bad luck/bad breaks shouldn't give him a pass to continue on coaching unless we've lowered the bar. It's the cliche about the definition of insanity.

2) Regarding Evans, we had him for the entirety of the season after the NCAA game against UCF. What was the "reason" for that season turning out like it did? If you want to reference the Evans injury and Covid for not having any NCAA wins, fine. We didn't have NCAA wins in three other seasons because we missed the tournament.

3) We are never going to be on the same page regarding the NIT. Being OK with NIT appearances and thinking occasionally it's "not a bad consolation prize" is not something I'll ever co-sign on. If we have a season where we were expected to be garbage and we found our way to the NIT, maybe. But even that masks the bigger issue, why were we expected to be garbage in the first place? Either way, something is not right.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. But if we regress to being at the level we were during the Capel years, please don't judge fans for their level of support regressing to Capel years as well.
Regarding #1, there are valid reasons for our not advancing in the NCAA’s that were outside of the coaches control. Those type of things get factored into any job evaluation. If you are so anxious to move on from Mike, consider that there’s a good chance that whoever were to replace him would not be able to do any better. If you were Ed, would you be ready to take that risk now? Also, what kind of credibility would we have with prospective coaches if we had just fired a coach with Mike’s record? Not many coaches are going to want to enter a pressure cooker where expectations border on being unrealistic.

On #2, anyone who watched us play could tell that the senior season Evans was only a shadow of his junior season self. That being said, I don’t write off that season as bad chemistry or off the court issues. Mike deserves blame for not managing that group and season better. There’s no way we should have had the regular season record that we had that year. Also, crazy family or not, could Mike have handled the MSS situation better? That’s a fair question.

On #3, I’m not much for the NIT either. I guess if we were to make it to the semis then it may be something to start getting excited about.
 

2012Ram

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Regarding #1, there are valid reasons for our not advancing in the NCAA’s that were outside of the coaches control.
Primarily that reason has been our team not being good enough to get invited 3 of his 5 seasons here
 

HBK

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Is there anything that you do think Mike is to blame for? I don't think I've ever seen you chalk up anything bad that has happened under his time here that wasn't some "nuanced context, but guys I promise it isn't an excuse!"
I’ve been clear. Go back and look at several posts from the past couple of days. Mike likes to give players a lot of freedom on offense. I think that freedom needs to be earned, and I‘m not sure we’ve earned it. Thus, I’d like to see him reel in some of that freedom on offense and run a few more set plays.

Most importantly, while I’ve been clear that his first season went about as I expected (a major struggle), so I can give him a pass for it, I don’t give him a pass for year three, the 2019-2020 season. That was an epic collapse and blame is deserved all around. However, if a major factor was ”chemistry issues”, as has been suggested by many, then that is primarily on the coaches. When you have an experienced team coming back and you collapse like that, then the staff should get the bulk of the blame. So, what I consider to be the one truly bad season Mike has had at VCU, especially relative to my own expectations, then the blame for it falls squarely on the shoulders of Mike and his staff because whatever they did wasn’t working.

Mike and staff deserve blame for missing on the transfers last season. You never really know how it’s going to workout, but Tsohonis and Nichols proved to be busts. Too early to tell with this season‘s transfers, but as a group they’ve already been more effective than last season’s duo.

If don’t believe nuance and context are important throughout life, then that’s on you. One day, I suspect you’ll realize how important they are, just as you’ll realize that reasons and excuses are two entirely different things.
 
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