The Official Beat the Temple Owls in Philly Thread

[RAMBALLFAN]

If he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year and next year and he isn’t fired, then VCU basketball is dead.

Given the self-purported depth of this team there is no good reason I can point to that should keep us from post season play. Give there are a number of new pieces to the team I don’t know if we’ll become consistently high-performing in time so I anticipate we’ll be hosting an NIT home game. However, if we aren’t in the tourney again next season I don’t think calling the program “dead” will be too much of a stretch. Dead at least in terms of being competitive on a national level.

 

[Mistachill]

I felt the same way about Maynor, when Capel kept starting Alex Harper over him, when by New Year's of his freshman season, it was clear Maynor was better than Harper.

I should point out though that when Fermin and Fats have been on the court, they have looked lost. Neither Maynor nor Bones looked lost as freshmen. In fact, the both looked like the game was moving slowly for them, as compared to a typical freshman; same with Ace as a freshman. Fermin isn't big enough and strong enough yet to really play well against bigs from P5 conferences and good mid-major conferences. That's why I'm hoping to see him get some good minutes and contribute over the next few games in the OOC.

As for Fats, he looked lost in the first few games he played. He finally showed himself to be more comfortable in his last game, when he got 9 minutes on the floor. The stats don't necessarily show it, but he looked better at both ends against Kennesaw State.

Therein lies the tough choices and the balance coaches have to maintain. Winning versus getting the young guys experience in real games. That experience is valuable, but it can cost you a game against good teams if you're not careful.

I think the next five games will be very interesting regarding the freshman. I can understand not wanting to throw them in there against some of the teams we played. I kinda look for a similar scenario to how we played Terry Larrier when he was here. By the end of the season he was solidly in the rotation. Early on, nope.

 

[mrgeode]

Given the self-purported depth of this team there is no good reason I can point to that should keep us from post season play. Give there are a number of new pieces to the team I don’t know if we’ll become consistently high-performing in time so I anticipate we’ll be hosting an NIT home game. However, if we aren’t in the tourney again next season I don’t think calling the program “dead” will be too much of a stretch. Dead at least in terms of being competitive on a national level.

So by that measure is Dayton basketball dead? There seems to be a reluctance to give Mike credit for making the NCAAs in 20-21 since we had the COVID forfeit. Should the same logic apply for Dayton fans given they didn't play in the NCAAs in 19-20 despite their fantastic season otherwise?

Genuinely curious, not trying to be provocative or put you on the spot.

 

[VCU Heel]

So by that measure is Dayton basketball dead? There seems to be a reluctance to give Mike credit for making the NCAAs in 20-21 since we had the COVID forfeit. Should the same logic apply for Dayton fans given they didn't play in the NCAAs in 19-20 despite their fantastic season otherwise?

Genuinely curious, not trying to be provocative or put you on the spot.

They haven’t made the NCAA Tournament since 2017. Even if you give them the 2020 cancellation, they would only have 1 tournament in 5 seasons. I would say they’re a pretty dead program if they don’t make it this year.

They made the 4 straight appearance from 2014-2017, but they’ve never made the tournament consistently for a long stretch like we did for a while there.

 

[Ramaholic]

So by that measure is Dayton basketball dead? There seems to be a reluctance to give Mike credit for making the NCAAs in 20-21 since we had the COVID forfeit. Should the same logic apply for Dayton fans given they didn't play in the NCAAs in 19-20 despite their fantastic season otherwise?

Genuinely curious, not trying to be provocative or put you on the spot.

Trust and believe there are some administrators, donors and fans in Dayton that are questioning the spend vs results and trajectory of that program as well. When you spend a lot of money at an mid major eductaional institution for a sport and market the program at a high price, there are high expectations from some people. One will never convince me that the highest paid individual at a university or college should be a coach.

 

[ssvcu90]

Rhoades is gonna play the older guys more than the younger guys regardless of talent level because he always has

Which is a partial driver as to why we're in this predicament.

 

[ssvcu90]

When he was first hired, I was a little put off by the destination job thing and the fact that he might stay at VCU forever. It’s a double-edged sword. If he’s wildly successful, then maybe we’ve hired our own Mark Few. But if he’s wildly mediocre, then maybe we’ve hired our own Chris Mooney.

VCU has succeeded over and over again with coaches that are hot commodities and will leave once the right job becomes available. As much as it sucked having to constantly worry about our coach leaving, the fact that it was possible at least meant our program was doing well. Personally, I’d prefer worrying about the coach leaving over worrying that we might be stuck with the wrong coach for a long time.

Same here. Ultimately, you become that destination program due to the success previous coaches. Unfortunately, VCU is nowhere near that right now.

 

[ssvcu90]

Trust and believe there are some administrators, donors and fans in Dayton that are questioning the spend vs results and trajectory of that program as well. When you spend a lot of money at an mid major eductaional institution for a sport and market the program at a high price, there are high expectations from some people. One will never convince me that the highest paid individual at a university or college should be a coach.

Which, I believe, is reasonable.

 

[ssvcu90]

If he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year and next year and he isn’t fired, then VCU basketball is dead.

Agreed. I think you can make this argument quite successfully this season.

 

[HBK]

So much goes into how much time freshmen get on the court. It's not fair to suggest that Rhoades doesn't give freshmen minutes. A more accurate way to say it would be that it depends on several factors: how is the kid doing in practice, how is he grasping the system mentally on both sides of the court, how physically mature is he (big difference between most 18 and 22 year olds), who is the opponent, game flow, time and score, and how much trust does the staff have in the kid, etc.

Here are five freshmen who got very meaningful minutes in the last several seasons, along with the average minutes they played as a freshmen: Vince 15 mins/game, Bones 20 minutes, Ace 30 minutes, Nunn 29 minutes, DeLoach 14 minutes.

Let's hope that both Fats and Fermin can start to get some good minutes over the next 5 games.

 

[RamJamFan]

When he was first hired, I was a little put off by the destination job thing and the fact that he might stay at VCU forever. It’s a double-edged sword. If he’s wildly successful, then maybe we’ve hired our own Mark Few. But if he’s wildly mediocre, then maybe we’ve hired our own Chris Mooney.

VCU has succeeded over and over again with coaches that are hot commodities and will leave once the right job becomes available. As much as it sucked having to constantly worry about our coach leaving, the fact that it was possible at least meant our program was doing well. Personally, I’d prefer worrying about the coach leaving over worrying that we might be stuck with the wrong coach for a long time.

Is it really an either/or situation? Why can’t we have an excellent coach who considers VCU his last runway? We have decent enough facilities and a decent enough conference, a decent campus in metro area of nice part of the country. The biggest remaining variables to fear might be coaching pay and coach’s ability to be content. We likely can’t fight a school luring our coach away with huge guaranteed money but can’t we be salary competitive? What does that mean, $3M annually? Can’t we afford that given the exposure on the national stage men’s bb provides vcu? Pay might still be a problem but so is a successful coach in his 40’s being content with what he has. Like a musician who suddenly strings together hit songs, distractions become the norm and suddenly they may feel they must swim in deeper waters. I think our program is now mature enough to afford higher pay but are we likely to secure a talented coach mature enough to know he has a good thing and not become starry eyed from some success and leave? That requires a big check book to fight off at the door.

 

[rampart]

If he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year and next year and he isn’t fired, then VCU basketball is dead.

True. With only four current freshmen, four sophomores, and four juniors, we'll be lucky to field a team next year.

 

[Celticguy]

So by that measure is Dayton basketball dead? There seems to be a reluctance to give Mike credit for making the NCAAs in 20-21 since we had the COVID forfeit. Should the same logic apply for Dayton fans given they didn't play in the NCAAs in 19-20 despite their fantastic season otherwise?

Genuinely curious, not trying to be provocative or put you on the spot.

If the covid forfeit was just bad luck, why were we the only one of 68 teams to have bad luck ?
This excuse really annoys me.

 

[PhantomRam]

If JC had chosen to stay he probably would have had a long career here. So, probably no AG or SS and no final 4.
So, why is changing coaches a necessarily a bad thing? The last two coaches have come of the Shaka tree. What we need to do is find another Shaka or even AG for that matter.

 

[Mistachill]

If the covid forfeit was just bad luck, why were we the only one of 68 teams to have bad luck ?
This excuse really annoys me.

...and the insinuation that we were to blame for getting hit with covid really annoys me.