The Official Must Beat the Ticks in the RC Thread

Mar 1, 2015
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Blaine Taylor literally filled the dumpster that is ODU basketball with his liquor bottles and set it ablaze before splitting for the coast to live the good life. They had absolutely nothing and had shifted priorities. Total wasteland. ODU slapped a set of retreads (Jeff Jones) on a pushed that flaming mess to consistent finishes near the top of conference USA standings. 6,2,3,3,2,1 winning 70 percent of league games.

CUSA absolutely sucks. Don’t want to hear anything about a losing record there and what a remarkable job he did at Rice.

If we hired Jeff Jones, how excited would you be? Why is MR graded on a curve simply because he had been an assistant here?
 

Wolfpack Ram

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Apr 21, 2009
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Rhody and Dayton both lose a lot. I am assuming that Obi Toppin goes to the NBA.
Dayton is basically losing Toppin, Landers and Mikesell from the core of their rotation. Crutcher will be back, along with Chatman and Watson.
Rhode Island is basically losing Langevine & Dowtin form the core of their rotation. Fatts Russel, Harris, Martin and Toppin will be back.

Both teams will be at the top of the A-10 again next year.
 

theyaintwantit

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Dec 22, 2009
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Blaine Taylor literally filled the dumpster that is ODU basketball with his liquor bottles and set it ablaze before splitting for the coast to live the good life. They had absolutely nothing and had shifted priorities. Total wasteland. ODU slapped a set of retreads (Jeff Jones) on a pushed that flaming mess to consistent finishes near the top of conference USA standings. 6,2,3,3,2,1 winning 70 percent of league games.

CUSA absolutely sucks. Don’t want to hear anything about a losing record there and what a remarkable job he did at Rice.

If we hired Jeff Jones, how excited would you be? Why is MR graded on a curve simply because he had been an assistant here?
What does Blaine Taylor, Jeff Jones, and ODU have anything to do with VCU's hire of Mike Rhoades?

Blaine coached ODU in the CAA. Jeff coached UVA in the ACC and American in the CAA & Patriot.
And.... yesterday you mentioned how you liked John Becker at Vermont which hails from the America East. Well news flash, the America East sucks ass too.

What is your point?
 
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PRock

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Let’s face it, the coaching decision was made in part because MR earned a lot of respect based on his time at VCU and his efforts to turn around Rice. It was also made because the admin, donors and vocal fanbase (ahem), had indicated being fatigued with the coaching churn and desiring stability.

Sure it would be great to have a quick fix, play the high risk/high reward transfer game and get a questionable recruit or two for a few seasons and then get a new coach....or go with a guy who has a vision and is willing to revisit fortifying the foundation and investing in the program.

The staff made a run at a bit of a quick fix with Evans—and that poor chap has been snake bit since he arrived on campus. We’d be a significantly better team with a healthy ME—even at 80% what he was at Rice, he is every bit the downhill PG that can create and convert with the best of them......just like Gilyard, Fatts, Crutcher and Lofton.

Unfortunately ME has been hurt/sick all year and URI pretty much showed the blue print to beat this team with a wounded ME—clog the lane, bully MSS, crash the boards and make us shoot 3s—there is very little mid-range in this team so defending isn’t that hard.

There are people that want to moan and groan about MR, players’ commitment, bad shots, etc..... Reality is that the most important player on the floor, a PG who was on the Wooden watch list, a 2000 point scorer and a tireless defensive pest—is hurt, has been hurt and just doesn’t have the same lift and quicks as last year.

It’s pretty basic, this team was considered a 20-25th ranked team with the expectation of a fully recovered ME, thought to be even better than last year’s version. If he had graduated, we would have been sniffing around a 60 ranking—maybe. There is no amount of coaching excellence that will just magically offset the case where your best offensive and defensive player and PG is just physically hampered and frankly getting worn down as the season progresses.

I can see the perspective that the staff fumbled on getting a stable backup PG situation—in hindsight, that probably should have been handled better in ‘17 and ‘18 recruiting. We are a little lucky to have gotten Bones and he is a helluva PG...but we should have had a sophmore/junior in place to back up ME—even if it was primarily as a ace defensive stopper.

Other than that, i don’t see any amount of scheming or screaming the staff could do to offset a wounded ME. The domino effect is just too significant.
 

Mistachill

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Apr 20, 2009
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What does Blaine Taylor, Jeff Jones, and ODU have anything to do with VCU's hire of Mike Rhoades?

Blaine coached ODU in the CAA. Jeff coached UVA in the ACC and American in the CAA & Patriot.
And.... yesterday you mentioned how you liked John Becker at Vermont which hails from the America East. Well news flash, the America East sucks ass too.

What is your point?
Yeah, sounds like when you get in an argument with your spouse about the mowing the lawn and they start going off about buying the wrong brand of toilet paper. Like, where did that come from and what does it have to do with the current conversation?
 

Mistachill

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Apr 20, 2009
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Let’s face it, the coaching decision was made in part because MR earned a lot of respect based on his time at VCU and his efforts to turn around Rice. It was also made because the admin, donors and vocal fanbase (ahem), had indicated being fatigued with the coaching churn and desiring stability.

Sure it would be great to have a quick fix, play the high risk/high reward transfer game and get a questionable recruit or two for a few seasons and then get a new coach....or go with a guy who has a vision and is willing to revisit fortifying the foundation and investing in the program.

The staff made a run at a bit of a quick fix with Evans—and that poor chap has been snake bit since he arrived on campus. We’d be a significantly better team with a healthy ME—even at 80% what he was at Rice, he is every bit the downhill PG that can create and convert with the best of them......just like Gilyard, Fatts, Crutcher and Lofton.

Unfortunately ME has been hurt/sick all year and URI pretty much showed the blue print to beat this team with a wounded ME—clog the lane, bully MSS, crash the boards and make us shoot 3s—there is very little mid-range in this team so defending isn’t that hard.

There are people that want to moan and groan about MR, players’ commitment, bad shots, etc..... Reality is that the most important player on the floor, a PG who was on the Wooden watch list, a 2000 point scorer and a tireless defensive pest—is hurt, has been hurt and just doesn’t have the same lift and quicks as last year.

It’s pretty basic, this team was considered a 20-25th ranked team with the expectation of a fully recovered ME, thought to be even better than last year’s version. If he had graduated, we would have been sniffing around a 60 ranking—maybe. There is no amount of coaching excellence that will just magically offset the case where your best offensive and defensive player and PG is just physically hampered and frankly getting worn down as the season progresses.

I can see the perspective that the staff fumbled on getting a stable backup PG situation—in hindsight, that probably should have been handled better in ‘17 and ‘18 recruiting. We are a little lucky to have gotten Bones and he is a helluva PG...but we should have had a sophmore/junior in place to back up ME—even if it was primarily as a ace defensive stopper.

Other than that, i don’t see any amount of scheming or screaming the staff could do to offset a wounded ME. The domino effect is just too significant.
Yeah, I prefer to play the long game at this point. Take our lumps a bit now if it results in long term, sustainable success. The Gregg Marshall template is what I'm thinking of. People forget it took him four years to get WSU back to the dance. But what he has established now is pretty solid for the long haul. And taking our lumps is a relative term considering a made it to the dance last year.
 

thelonious_chunk

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Jun 17, 2014
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How many of MSS's missed layup and point blank shots is MR to be blamed for?
He’s responsible for being over-reliant on a 6’7” center and then not designing an offense that helps him thrive. He needs regular help down low, and we need taller and bigger guys. We also need more legit shooting threats to open our offense up.

How many missed open threes is MR to be blamed for?
He’s responsible for not recruiting shooters who can score in this system at this level, and then refusing to tailor his system to the talent he has. Maladaptive.

None of us know why DJ has only marginally progressed the last three years.
This is on coach IMO. Player development is part of the job, pushing, motivating, structuring practice and conditioning to maximize the player’s potential, and then holding the player accountable for it.

There's a difference between being held accountable and being the reason why things are happening.
He is the reason why things aren’t happening though, like player development (except MSS who is clearly self-motivated via his social media) and motivation. Also targeting our weaknesses and cultivating/demanding discipline on and off court. The attitudes are poor and lazy out there.

I have a hard time believing he suddenly forgot how to coach
I thought he looked like a good not great coach last year which is how he looks now, except the defense which has now slipped. ME hero ball carried us in a few wins and the rest we just had more talent/athleticism. But our offense was pure garbage. The award seemed results-based, and his results looked more impressive than they actually were. The A10 was more of a mid-major conference last year and then we got destroyed in the tourney.

Whatever the problem is MR has to identify it and address it.
I don’t understand why he hasn’t addressed it yet? It’s been months, really even since last year that ME’s core adjustable issues (turnovers, poor shot selection, inability to assist or run an offense besides iso and flopping) have been stagnant. The lack of response, or delay in response is what is so concerning and points to a significant flaw.
It doesn’t feel too early to criticize all of these things. They demonstrate a clear lack of efficiency and effective adjustment. Frankly I’m confused as to why people are so ready to defend MR and throw the seniors under. It’s like blaming soldiers for losing a war, it makes no sense.



I do see your opinion and it makes a lot of sense in that the issues are based on the players not performing well, but I happen to think they aren’t performing well because they haven’t been set up to succeed. I think we just differ in philosophy in that I think a coach can influence everything to a pretty significant degree, and that if they don’t they aren’t optimizing the team which is just my perspective and I’m not claiming it as truth. Will Wade was bad with building relationships but I enjoyed his micromanagement approach. It seems MR is more dependent on players to figure their own problems out. Obviously the popular consensus here agrees with your sentiments though.

And your missing the point regarding putting faith in leadership. We have succeeded taking such risks, doesn’t mean those coaches were beyond critique or had earned good faith just by being hired by us. They just produced results and got hired away. Regarding Rice, I didn’t gloss over anything. He had a winning season at a low-tier program. That does not suggest he knows what he’s doing now. He’s never competed in high-tier D1 until now at VCU. It collapses the Ethos-based argument in favor of MR. This has already been explained but you haven’t liked that point over the last few years.



PRock’s point is the one that makes the most sense. It’s all about ME. But that’s the key. MR was TOO dependent on ME, who was known to be injury prone already. You need multiple backup plans.

TL;DR - We’re not going to agree and that’s fine.
 
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Ramdog

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Feb 10, 2009
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Yeah, I prefer to play the long game at this point. Take our lumps a bit now if it results in long term, sustainable success. The Gregg Marshall template is what I'm thinking of. People forget it took him four years to get WSU back to the dance. But what he has established now is pretty solid for the long haul. And taking our lumps is a relative term considering a made it to the dance last year.
WSU is currently 5th in AAC with a net of 46...no lock for sure....just saying
 
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Mistachill

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He’s responsible for being over-reliant on a 6’7” center and then not designing an offense that helps him thrive. He needs regular help down low, and we need taller and bigger guys. We also need more legit shooting threats to open our offense up.



He’s responsible for not recruiting shooters who can score in this system at this level, and then refusing to tailor his system to the talent he has. Maladaptive.



This is on coach IMO. Player development is part of the job, pushing, motivating, structuring practice and conditioning to maximize the player’s potential, and then holding the player accountable for it.



He is the reason why things aren’t happening though, like player development (except MSS who is clearly self-motivated via his social media) and motivation. Also targeting our weaknesses and cultivating/demanding discipline on and off court. The attitudes are poor and lazy out there.



I thought he looked like a good not great coach last year which is how he looks now, except the defense which has now slipped. ME hero ball carried us in a few wins and the rest we just had more talent/athleticism. But our offense was pure garbage. The award seemed results-based, and his results looked more impressive than they actually were. The A10 was more of a mid-major conference last year and then we got destroyed in the tourney.



I don’t understand why he hasn’t addressed it yet? It’s been months, really even since last year that ME’s core adjustable issues (turnovers, poor shot selection, inability to assist or run an offense besides iso and flopping) have been stagnant. The lack of response, or delay in response is what is so concerning and points to a significant flaw.
It doesn’t feel too early to criticize all of these things. They demonstrate a clear lack of efficiency and effective adjustment. Frankly I’m confused as to why people are so ready to defend MR and throw the seniors under. It’s like blaming soldiers for losing a war, it makes no sense.



I do see your opinion and it makes a lot of sense in that the issues are based on the players not performing well, but I happen to think they aren’t performing well because they haven’t been set up to succeed. I think we just differ in philosophy in that I think a coach can influence everything to a pretty significant degree, and that if they don’t they aren’t optimizing the team which is just my perspective and I’m not claiming it as truth. Will Wade was bad with building relationships but I enjoyed his micromanagement approach. It seems MR is more dependent on players to figure their own problems out. Obviously the popular consensus here agrees with your sentiments though.
1) How is MR responsible for being over reliant on MSS? MR can't decide who his best player is going to be. This season the pecking order was suppose to be Evans, DJ, Vann and then possibly MSS. MSS emerged as our top option because the other guys aren't producing. So it seems to me MR has adapted the focus of the offense based on who is playing best. I doubt very seriously MR designed the team such that an undersize center is our leading scorer. I mean, what was he suppose to do? If MSS was our most productive offensive player and we didn't go to him more guess who would be the first to complain about that?

2) So we go from being a mainly perimeter team and working to get the ball to MSS as our main offensive threat, but he's hasn't tailor the system? Huh?

3) Have you considered that maybe DJ just isn't as good as advertised? Again, this mindset that the coach is a mad scientist who create these Frankenstein players is interesting. And a player's drive and motivation is totally under the coach's control?

4) Regarding addressing the problem, how we don't know if it hasn't been addressed? Every problem doesn't have a quick fix. Maybe the answer to whatever the problem is is different players? If you have a kid who is getting bad grades and you've set up tutors, had long talks with him, discussed it with his teachers, but no improvement, has the problem been addressed? And if the problem persists, is it your fault as the parent or the kid's?
 

rammad90

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Jan 19, 2010
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Let’s face it, the coaching decision was made in part because MR earned a lot of respect based on his time at VCU and his efforts to turn around Rice. It was also made because the admin, donors and vocal fanbase (ahem), had indicated being fatigued with the coaching churn and desiring stability.

Sure it would be great to have a quick fix, play the high risk/high reward transfer game and get a questionable recruit or two for a few seasons and then get a new coach....or go with a guy who has a vision and is willing to revisit fortifying the foundation and investing in the program.

The staff made a run at a bit of a quick fix with Evans—and that poor chap has been snake bit since he arrived on campus. We’d be a significantly better team with a healthy ME—even at 80% what he was at Rice, he is every bit the downhill PG that can create and convert with the best of them......just like Gilyard, Fatts, Crutcher and Lofton.

Unfortunately ME has been hurt/sick all year and URI pretty much showed the blue print to beat this team with a wounded ME—clog the lane, bully MSS, crash the boards and make us shoot 3s—there is very little mid-range in this team so defending isn’t that hard.

There are people that want to moan and groan about MR, players’ commitment, bad shots, etc..... Reality is that the most important player on the floor, a PG who was on the Wooden watch list, a 2000 point scorer and a tireless defensive pest—is hurt, has been hurt and just doesn’t have the same lift and quicks as last year.

It’s pretty basic, this team was considered a 20-25th ranked team with the expectation of a fully recovered ME, thought to be even better than last year’s version. If he had graduated, we would have been sniffing around a 60 ranking—maybe. There is no amount of coaching excellence that will just magically offset the case where your best offensive and defensive player and PG is just physically hampered and frankly getting worn down as the season progresses.

I can see the perspective that the staff fumbled on getting a stable backup PG situation—in hindsight, that probably should have been handled better in ‘17 and ‘18 recruiting. We are a little lucky to have gotten Bones and he is a helluva PG...but we should have had a sophmore/junior in place to back up ME—even if it was primarily as a ace defensive stopper.

Other than that, i don’t see any amount of scheming or screaming the staff could do to offset a wounded ME. The domino effect is just too significant.
P Rock I totally agree. Jenkins, as talented as he is, is not an Alpha. It just not in Jenkins DNA to take charge and lead you down the stretch. But with a healthy ME he too would have been more affective as teams couldn't key on him.

Now as to my "Bones needs to start" and "Mike needs to shake up his line up"s crew (Not directed to your post PRock) . Well how did that work out? Mike sees what he sees from these guys day in and day out. Then he makes the best decision on starters and pt based on who we play, who's healthy, and how well the guys have been doing in practice.

Well he appeased everyone you got your wish, Evans was out, Bones started, Williams started and we got routed. Bones is an excellent freshmen but he is a freshmen. He's not better than Evans this year. If he scratches what Evans did the first 3 years of his career there will be good times here at VCU. But for now he is a freshmen and he does what freshmen do at this level, he's up and down.

Now come on people let's get off Mike (my self included) and simply support the team. All we have is all we have. Either your in our your out.

Go Rams!
 
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theyaintwantit

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Dec 22, 2009
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Yeah, I prefer to play the long game at this point. Take our lumps a bit now if it results in long term, sustainable success. The Gregg Marshall template is what I'm thinking of. People forget it took him four years to get WSU back to the dance. But what he has established now is pretty solid for the long haul. And taking our lumps is a relative term considering a made it to the dance last year.
For sure. Too many fans act like MR purposely tried to go 18-15 in his first season. Also, if one 18-15 season killed you that much then your life is fragile as sh1t.

If you question MR coaching methods, that is fine. If you are a sports fan and don't question the manager or coach from time to time then you probably aren't paying close enough attention. But if you didn't question AG, Shaka, and Will's coaching methods then you are either a bold face liar or you must have forgotten some of the games I wish I could forget from those teams.
 
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Wolfpack Ram

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Wow, we have certain been spoiled here. Danced 7 out of the last 8 years with a final four and a sweet 16 is not acceptable?
I would love a Sweet 16. 2011 is the only time VCU has gone past the first weekend.

Regarding being spoiled, it is a byproduct of the success this program has had. Regarding the current coaching staff, I am in no way throwing Coach Rhoades and staff under the bus, but they are about to miss the NCAA Tournament for the second time in the three years they have been here. That has to concern fans to some degree. Especially with all of the pre-season hype this team received. And I don't throw the blame for that at ME's feet either.

Last year, the comment was made quite frequently that VCU would go as far as IV would take them. Well, this year this team has gone as far as IV has taken them.
 
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Yeah, sounds like when you get in an argument with your spouse about the mowing the lawn and they start going off about buying the wrong brand of toilet paper. Like, where did that come from and what does it have to do with the current conversation?
The point being we took a risk on a guy who didn’t have much of a track record. When Hiring a coach from a low major, wouldn’t some success over some period time be a starting point?

I see people brought up Greg Marshall. Winthrop was garbage for years, he turned it around instantly and dominated that league.

With VCUs Support, funding, facilities, and level of winning, were we really that desperate??? I didn’t think we were. Hiring someone from a poop program who hadn’t done poop was a small time move. MAYBE he does fine. Why take that chance? Why not someone who has proved it? Doesn’t make sense to me.

what does Jeff Jones have to do with anything? Ram nation was a crapped themselves if we had hired a guy like that, but his track record blows MR away. Just a illustration from a rival of what a small move it was.
 
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