Players The Vince Williams Thread

rammad90

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There are 60 two way contracts. As of today, 4 2nd round picks have signed two way contracts. 16 undrafted rookies have signed two way contracts so the Odds may favor a 2nd rounder because the pool is smaller but it seems way more undrafted players actually sign them
However, that does not account for the 2nd rounders who have signed actual contracts. Fwiw, did anyone notice the UR guard Gilyard has signed a training camp deal with the Grizz?

Might be a plus for Vince seeing a familiar face and having a pg, at least fro a while, who might feed him the ball.
 

AlienAiden

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However, that does not account for the 2nd rounders who have signed actual contracts. Fwiw, did anyone notice the UR guard Gilyard has signed a training camp deal with the Grizz?

Might be a plus for Vince seeing a familiar face and having a pg, at least fro a while, who might feed him the ball.
Yes, Gilyard signed an Exhibit 10 Training Camp contract with Memphis.
 

TampaKAP

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However, that does not account for the 2nd rounders who have signed actual contracts. Fwiw, did anyone notice the UR guard Gilyard has signed a training camp deal with the Grizz?

Might be a plus for Vince seeing a familiar face and having a pg, at least fro a while, who might feed him the ball.
As of today

  • 2nd Round picks with guaranteed contracts - 10
  • 2nd round picks with 2 way contracts - 6
  • 2nd round picks expected to play overseas - 9
  • 2nd round picks with no contract or current plans to play elsewhere - 3
 

PRock

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As of today

  • 2nd Round picks with guaranteed contracts - 10
  • 2nd round picks with 2 way contracts - 6
  • 2nd round picks expected to play overseas - 9
  • 2nd round picks with no contract or current plans to play elsewhere - 3
Do you have the same for UDFAs, I’m guessing being drafted in the second round doesn’t look so bad…..
 

rammad90

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Do you have the same for UDFAs, I’m guessing being drafted in the second round doesn’t look so bad…..
I guess that kind of dispels the notion that being drafted in the 2nd round is of no benefit. As of today half of the guys have contracts and 1/3 have guaranteed contracts.

As to those 9 overseas a good bet is some of them will get contracts as well.
 

VCU Heel

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Do you have the same for UDFAs, I’m guessing being drafted in the second round doesn’t look so bad…..
The question is whether these guys would still get these deal if undrafted but without being locked in to one team. They’re better than the undrafted guys. Of course they have better options. The second round needs to be eliminated unless they want to guarantee them contracts.
 

VCU Heel

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I guess that kind of dispels the notion that being drafted in the 2nd round is of no benefit. As of today half of the guys have contracts and 1/3 have guaranteed contracts.

As to those 9 overseas a good bet is some of them will get contracts as well.
All of them would have gotten contracts without the second round. All of them.
 

VCU Heel

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Unprovable hypothesis, but die on the hill, i respect that.
Please advance your theory that players are better off with fewer options and that teams don’t like locking players in with them without having to commit to them.
 

PRock

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Please advance your theory that players are better off with fewer options and that teams don’t like locking players in with them without having to commit to them.
Players drafted in the second round are more likely than those undrafted to get an NBA contract within the first three years out of college, therefore having enhanced career earnings overall. The three years makes it a more fair test for your position.

Empirical test. Look over the past 10-12 years at the ultimate NBA contract
situations of players drafted in the second round vs, the top 30 undrafted free agents in the same draft class. We could limit it to NBA earnings after three years as a strict test of the hypothesis or look at overall career earnings across the first three years to allow for cases where overseas contracts were better than what they would have gotten in the NBA….It ain’t perfect, but it’s testable.

i’m sure some young gun data scientist is up for the task…..I’m just overhead at this point of my career, i have zero motivation to do the analysis…..so unless someone wants to run with it, this is a beer debate at best.
 

VCU Heel

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Players drafted in the second round are more likely than those undrafted to get an NBA contract within the first three years out of college, therefore having enhanced career earnings overall. The three years makes it a more fair test for your position.

Empirical test. Look over the past 10-12 years at the ultimate NBA contract
situations of players drafted in the second round vs, the top 30 undrafted free agents in the same draft class. We could limit it to NBA earnings after three years as a strict test of the hypothesis or look at overall career earnings across the first three years to allow for cases where overseas contracts were better than what they would have gotten in the NBA….It ain’t perfect, but it’s testable.

i’m sure some young gun data scientist is up for the task…..I’m just overhead at this point of my career, i have zero motivation to do the analysis…..so unless someone wants to run with it, this is a beer debate at best.
You do realize the fallacies in your argument. Right?

The small number of second round picks versus the hundreds of undrafted players. The quality of second round picks versus the quality if the hundreds of undrafted players. Of course the numbers look better without looking at the obvious confounding variables.

Those second round players would absolutely be better off being free agents than being locked into one team. Is that not obvious man?
 

PRock

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You do realize the fallacies in your argument. Right?

The small number of second round picks versus the hundreds of undrafted players. The quality of second round picks versus the quality if the hundreds of undrafted players. Of course the numbers look better without looking at the obvious confounding variables.

Those second round players would absolutely be better off being free agents than being locked into one team. Is that not obvious man?
Obviously i don’t consider the fallacy you speak of to be an issue. If you want to open the UDFA pool to more than the top 30, that’s fine. i still think that second rounders will be materially better off. The % of UDFA that make it to the NBa or even champions league level Euro teams is small. Second rounders have much better odds of success in the NBA and likely overall….they are most likely more talented on average, that alone accounts for it. So if being drafted is an indicator of talent level—welp, draft me.

Now if the arguement is to just do away with the draft or the second round, take that to the NBAPA, they agreed to the rules. It still stands that a second round draft pick is better off than an UDFA in the current system.
 

TampaKAP

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Do you have the same for UDFAs, I’m guessing being drafted in the second round doesn’t look so bad…..
that is a bit tricky. There are signings, mostly two way, exhibit, etc and they change frequently. For example and this is not a 2022 first time eligible player but Shareef cooper signed a two way contract and was waived 4 days later. The odds are better when you are drafted but as with anytime you gamble the higher the odds, the higher the potential to hit it big early. For the record, if it were my child, i’d prefer them being drafted 🤷‍♂️
 

VCU Heel

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Obviously i don’t consider the fallacy you speak of to be an issue. If you want to open the UDFA pool to more than the top 30, that’s fine. i still think that second rounders will be materially better off. The % of UDFA that make it to the NBa or even champions league level Euro teams is small. Second rounders have much better odds of success in the NBA and likely overall….they are most likely more talented on average, that alone accounts for it. So if being drafted is an indicator of talent level—welp, draft me.

Now if the arguement is to just do away with the draft or the second round, take that to the NBAPA, they agreed to the rules. It still stands that a second round draft pick is better off than an UDFA in the current system.
The argument is to do away with the second round. It’s bad for players. The NBAPA agrees but has to negotiate. I can’t “take things to the NBAPA.” LMFAO
 
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