Players Time to have a conversation

Ramdog

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Feb 10, 2009
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There is such a clear path of action that should have occurred after the fact
Here is what I dont understand. Why arent people the demonstrating against the neighborhood violence. (See Below)





"
The qadruple shooting on Thursday in eastern Henrico just outside the Richmond city limits marks the latest in a spate of shootings in recent weeks that has alarmed communities in the metro area. At least 28 people have been shot, five of them fatally, in Richmond and Henrico since July 7.

The violence included the shooting this week of five people, one fatally, outside a McDonald’s during daylight hours in a busy commercial section of Forest Hill Avenue in South Richmond. And in one eight-hour period last week, Richmond police reported that six people were shot in five separate incidents in the East End, North Side and South Side. A 15-year-old boy and a 31-year-old woman were killed, and the wounded included 3-year-old and 6-year-old girls.

The 3-year-old was lying in bed around 11 p.m. on July 14 when a bullet pierced her leg. Her stepfather, Kevin Rowland, heard what he thought were fireworks and could hear his stepdaughter crying. He knew she was afraid of fireworks, so he wasn’t surprised."

"
But when the child’s mother touched her leg, it was wet. There was blood coming through her pajama pants.

The child was rushed to the hospital, where a doctor decided not to remove the bullet fragment because it was close to an artery, Rowland said, adding that the doctor said the fragment might fall out as the child grows up.

“She’s actually back to herself; she’s playing,” Rowland said.

The 3-year-old was shot in the same drive-by that left a 15-year-old dead at George Mason Apartments at North 31st and P streets.

“When is it going to stop?” Rowland said of the recent shootings across Richmond and in Henrico. “Kids can’t even sleep in their bed or go out to play.”

People keep bitching that we dont need to cops and that they can take care of their own neighborhoods.

Well, here's your chance.


Start making your own neighborhoods safe taking care of your own families. Make sure your kids arent involved with the wrong crowd and look after your neighbors

Maybe then you wont have tragedies like the one above. This doesn't just go for urban neighbourhoods. This goes for the suburban ones like the Connecticut where Sandy Hook massacre took place.

Then..you wont need the cops.
Not sexy enuff topic...
 

Natty

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Feb 12, 2009
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Anyone asking how could a police officer have stopped Marcus in sch a short amount of time?
In my 4 years working at the hospital which I called home, though never a fun thing at all, I took down to the ground and restrained at least 400 different people (maybe more) in the exact same type of situations inside of a hospital, at least 80 of them having been charged at full speed. 7-8 times I was by myself. Most times it was two or three folks. We were extensively trained. We did it with no guns, no mace, no ropes, no straps, no billy clubs. But we did have thorazine. I never sustained even a minor injury from my line of work in my years there.

Tonight MDP Circle had a group doing a wake for George Floyd, poets, and much more... with NO BS Brass Band handing it over to Chelsea Wise of Richmond Accountability Project, who had led a street procession (march) to MDP from the Jefferson where he had began a rampage no sane person would have started, seen on film they released. This is the point where mental health officials could (very well should) have been called immediately, but no system was in place for a response from such a unit that did not exist at the time, and as of this time, still doesn't. We need immediate implementation of this system, there no time to waste. Marcus Alert will also provide for nonviolent intervention training for RPD. We'll still be left with limited info about it as RPD and Commonwealth's attorney will not reopen the quickly closed case. George Floyd's lawyer, and 2 brothers who flew in from out for town and had been greeted and taken are of by a local young person assigned to the task. The young guy also spoke.
There had to have been, spread around, at least 3000 people there.

You, yeah you who are seeing this... you should take time to watch this entire thing. Note the lightning in the distance when the speakers speak. My guy Risegun is closest to me on hand drums when that part starts, he played handdrums on AAE's original album Coming Home. If you fast forward through it, you're cheating yourself. If you miss it you missed a good one.


Jahn, I definitely agree that we need to get mental health workers involved on a public safety level instead of police. I think what is going to be very tough however, is it will require citizens to turn into clinical psychologists.

Take Marcus' case for example. He was naked and flopping around on 95. Seems pretty easy to diagnose. But most cases are going to be trying to figure out "is this just an angry person or a CRAZY person?" Then ratchet up that degree of difficulty by throwing in a weapon. That's going to be a serious challenge and it's going to be messy.

Also on the note of demands and the MDP case. Let's say they reopen the case and come to the conclusion, a conclusion that doesn't satisfy the protestors and those making that specific demand...then what happens? Curious to get your take on that.
 
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RamLover

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Dec 1, 2016
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And protesters have attacked completely peaceful police.

Don't make it sound like it's all the police when bricks, rocks, bottles, batteries and who knows what else are being thrown at the police.

And for the record, people don't link all protesters to violence. But right now, you can easily link over 50% of protests to some form of violence. And that percentage may be low.

Most of the protesters are between 20 - 35 years old and half of them probably couldn't even begin to tell you what their end goal is.

Sure, and those protestors that attack police unprovoked are in the wrong and do not fall into the category of peaceful protesting, so again, you (and others) are still having trouble with keeping them separate and having your emotions about one spread to the other.

But also, it’s just so condescending to say 20-35 year-olds don’t know their end goals. Some don’t (like people of any age group), but the vast majority do. They feel strongly about a topic and are advocating for change. You don’t have to be 36 and up to know right vs. wrong when it comes to social justice. There’s plenty of evil/awful older adults, too. That’s just absurd to me, sorry.

I’d also fight back about citing 50% of protests to violence. Peaceful protesting takes many forms and has been happening all over since this all began, all over the city, and all times of the day. The news just doesn’t write an article about each one.
 
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RamLover

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Dec 1, 2016
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Unfortunately, police are put in a reactionary position way too much. Regardless of the fact that the man was unarmed and naked, the police are NOT trained medical professionals and are not able to psychoanalyze someone in a matter of seconds to determine if they are of mentally incapacitated or just plain violent. A person doesn't always have be be in possession of a weapon to be considered dangerous.

And guns and suffocation don’t always need to be the only way to protect against a dangerous individual, especially when there are more than a few cops on the scene. Again, this a trend, not about an isolated incident.

I already admitted that one situation was a tricky one, but the majority of other situations that are being brought to attention are about unnecessary deaths for perpetrators of no crimes or very petty crime escalating into death for no reason. Cops can and should be defended when the situation warrants it, but they should also be questioned and penalized when warranted, too.
 
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RonnieDobbs

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May 20, 2009
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Most of the protesters are between 20 - 35 years old and half of them probably couldn't even begin to tell you what their end goal is.
Do you really think a majority of the protesters could not articulate goals like reallocating resources? I don't know for sure, I haven't been out there, but I suspect they could.
 
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Ramaholic

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Mar 8, 2010
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Jahn, I definitely agree that we need to get mental health workers involved on a public safety level instead of police. I think what is going to be very tough however, is it will require citizens to turn into clinical psychologists.

Take Marcus' case for example. He was naked and flopping around on 95. Seems pretty easy to diagnose. But most cases are going to be trying to figure out "is this just an angry person or a CRAZY person?" Then ratchet up that degree of difficulty by throwing in a weapon. That's going to be a serious challenge and it's going to be messy.

Also on the note of demands and the MDP case. Let's say they reopen the case and come to the conclusion, a conclusion that doesn't satisfy the protestors and those making that specific demand...then what happens? Curious to get your take on that.
I think this is exactly why Police should not "police" themselves. they should be subject to a review by the community board and held accountable both legally and professionally for misdoings.
Yesterday in Henrico, the Board of Supervisors couldn't agree on a citizen review board for the Police. The argument, in part was, "we don't have the same problems with our police that other cities do". Well if you continue to "police" the police from within the department, you sure was heck will have the same problems and costly destruction when the internal review board makes errors that favor their colleagues.
Police have in many ways gotten out of hand with some of there tactics, biases and accountability. A citizen review board that governs misconduct is a no brainer in my opinion.
As for the MDP case, if any of us shot an unarmed, naked man threatening us, we would have a legal case against us that we would have to answer for in court. The police should be no different. A shooting death of an unarmed naked person deserves a ruling from outside the department.
 
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Natty

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And guns and suffocation don’t always need to be the only way to protect against a dangerous individual, especially when there are more than a few cops on the scene. Again, this a trend, not about an isolated incident.

I already admitted that one situation was a tricky one, but the majority of other situations that are being brought to attention are about unnecessary deaths for perpetrators of no crimes or very petty crime escalating into death for no reason. Cops can and should be defended when the situation warrants it, but they should also be questioned and penalized when warranted, too.

Seems like a real agreeable issue here should be in figuring out how to address qualified immunity.

Apparently a majority of Americans agree it needs to be fixed.
 
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VCU85

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Jan 26, 2016
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Do you really think a majority of the protesters could not articulate goals like reallocating resources? I don't know for sure, I haven't been out there, but I suspect they could.
Have you seen some of the man on the street interviews asking people basic questions like what is the 4th of July, who is our president, how many states there are ? I'm amazed at the ignorance of 25-30 year old "adults" in this country.
 

duncanlamb

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Apr 22, 2009
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According to CBS news


Virginia had 5 cities ranked in the top 50 highest murder rates in the country in 2019 (after the marcus peter incident).

Hampton, Va - 46
Roanoke, Va. - 43
Newport News, Va - 37
Norfolk, Va - 32
Richmond , Va. - 11
Washington DC - 10
Baltimore, Md.

Richmond is number 11 which is way ahead of much larger cities like Miami Florida and Dallas, Texas.

Another interesting note, every time the Richmond news media reports homicide they put up a number to call ""crime stoppers" for those wanting to provide information.

For those who want less police and demonstrating against police brutality.

How many of you are currently in the rotation of your neighborhood watch?
If your neighorhood doesn't have watch, why cant you take the time to get with your neighbors and organize one?

Mind you. None of this requires any money. All.it requires is your collective time to keep your neighbourhoods safe and help law enforcement do their job.

You guys are willing to demonstrate but are you willing to give that time to make your own neighborhoods safe.

Maybe Marcus Peter's wouldnt have died if someone saw his state of mind before he jumped in his car.
 
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RamLover

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Dec 1, 2016
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Have you seen some of the man on the street interviews asking people basic questions like what is the 4th of July, who is our president, how many states there are ? I'm amazed at the ignorance of 25-30 year old "adults" in this country.

Have you seen those same videos of older adults at Trump rallies? Stupid people exist in all groups.
 

RamLover

Top Member
Dec 1, 2016
731
1,121

According to CBS news


Virginia had 5 cities ranked in the top 50 highest murder rates in the country in 2019 (after the marcus peter incident).

Hampton, Va - 46
Roanoke, Va. - 43
Newport News, Va - 37
Norfolk, Va - 32
Richmond , Va. - 11
Washington DC - 10
Baltimore, Md.

Richmond is number 11 which is way ahead of much larger cities like Miami Florida and Dallas, Texas.

Another interesting note, every time the Richmond news media reports homicide they put up a number to call ""crime stoppers" for those wanting to provide information.

For those who want less police and demonstrating against police brutality.

How many of you are currently in the rotation of your neighborhood watch?
If your neighorhood doesn't have watch, why cant you take the time to get with your neighbors and organize one?

Mind you. None of this requires any money. All.it requires is your collective time to keep your neighbourhoods safe and help law enforcement do their job.

You guys are willing to demonstrate but are you willing to give that time to make your own neighborhoods safe.

Maybe Marcus Peter's wouldnt have died if someone saw his state of mind before he jumped in his car.

I appreciate the thinking here, and everyone can always do their part in helping curb violence everywhere before it escalates into a situation involving police, but none of that should distract from the problems that occur in some of these unfortunate incidents once the police arrive. These are separate issues.

However, I agree that everyone should always second guess when calling the police for help. Many problems can be diffused with an intervening kind soul, some patience, and some perspective. Especially when calling the police on someone who looks different than you, maybe take the time to check any internal biases and see if fear or anger is really coming from the situation at hand and not just assumptions.
 

rvaram

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Mar 26, 2012
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Do you really think a majority of the protesters could not articulate goals like reallocating resources? I don't know for sure, I haven't been out there, but I suspect they could.
The problem for me is that a lot of what they are requesting is nuts. Drop all charges against protesters? There's literally a billboard with this demand. Makes it hard to take the movement seriously when one of your top priorities is giving a pass to people who assaulted cops or were rioting with a hand gun.

Reopening the case against the officer who shot David-Peters doesn't seem right to me either. The video is very tough to watch but I think most reasonable people can see the officer absolutely didn't want to use deadly force but wasn't left with a choice. The focus should be on mental health not trying to demonize that officer and ruin his life too.
 

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Have you seen some of the man on the street interviews asking people basic questions like what is the 4th of July, who is our president, how many states there are ? I'm amazed at the ignorance of 25-30 year old "adults" in this country.
It's weird. It's almost like they picked the dumbest people on the street to make an entertaining show. Watching a show about people who get those answers right isn't fun. If you think those are the only people they interviewed while filming, I have a bridge to sell you.