Top 25 watch (VCU ranked #21)

HBK

Top Member
Mar 29, 2010
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I agree with one caveat. For us, it does matter as any shine we receive as a program helps us recruit and promotes our program. Agreed as to basketball it really doesnt matter that much. But being a mid major we need to stay in the public eye to remain relevant. There may be a kid somewhere that brags to his buds that VCU is in his final group and he's considering going there. Buddy says VCwho? and he responds dude great program, great facilities, great location, great fans, and "we" are ranked.
I used to be of the mindset that the rankings didn't matter. However, I have done a 180 on this topic. You make an excellent point, and it is the one point that made me change my opinion a while back. In today's world especially, the "free" publicity that goes with being ranked and having your highlights shown on ESPN and CBS, makes it a potentially valuable recruiting tool. For a school like VCU, with fewer resources than most of the top 25, that free publicity from being in the top 25 is incredibly important.
 

HBK

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Mar 29, 2010
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How any rational person can think polls don't have value is beyond me. Obviously they don't count a great deal early in the season with respect to the selection committee or determining who will have the best program come March, but the residual benefit is huge. Anytime a non P5 can get their name in literally thousands of publications and mentions on TV/Radio nationally is huge. The national marketing value is off the charts. People that rarely see your name mentioned see it every day. Perhaps the greatest value comes from the impact on the recruiting function. We all say to make that jump to the next level we need to sign more elite recruits. Well guess what - it's a lot easier for a kid who is under enormous peer group pressure to wear your schools Jersey when he walks down the hall in school after having committed to VCU. When he's queried as to why he signed with VCU vs. a P5 program he can say "hey man were ranked and are a consistent participant in post season play." I've seen this close-up. No question NCAA post season participation is the number one variable but being ranked certainly has it's benefits. Think moral suasion. Another benefit is how John-Q-Public as well as Corporate America perceives your program and the potential for an increase in giving.

The point is, while it may not impact the analytics, particularly early on, it can have a very substantial overall positive impact on the program.
I really don't want to speak for others, but I think they may feel like the actual number of a team's ranking isn't really indicative of where they truly stand in the pecking order of college basketball. From that standpoint, they may be right. Kentucky was #1 until they lost at home to Evansville, not to mention their huge struggle at home last night with Utah Valley. Clearly Kentucky is not the best team in the country right now. Are they really the 9th best team, which is where they are now? Who knows? The fact that VCU could win two games and drop out of the rankings can also make people skeptical of what it really means. I think that is what people think when they say rankings don't matter.

That being said, you are spot on. The publicity and notoriety from being in the top 25 is so incredibly valuable. You nailed it. Being ranked is important and it matters from this perspective. Now, we just have to stay in the rankings for awhile.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
16,599
27,138
I really don't want to speak for others, but I think they may feel like the actual number of a team's ranking isn't really indicative of where they truly stand in the pecking order of college basketball. From that standpoint, they may be right. Kentucky was #1 until they lost at home to Evansville, not to mention their huge struggle at home last night with Utah Valley. Clearly Kentucky is not the best team in the country right now. Are they really the 9th best team, which is where they are now? Who knows? The fact that VCU could win two games and drop out of the rankings can also make people skeptical of what it really means. I think that is what people think when they say rankings don't matter.

That being said, you are spot on. The publicity and notoriety from being in the top 25 is so incredibly valuable. You nailed it. Being ranked is important and it matters from this perspective. Now, we just have to stay in the rankings for awhile.
Very well stated.
 
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Feb 14, 2011
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How so? LSU was ranked #23 prior to losing to VCU. They should have dropped out of the Top 25 - Whether it's November or February.
The movements in the top 25 this early in the season are generally pretty drastic, often with little logic. Once we get some real data in the next few weeks, the Top 25 becomes more real and less about popularity and opinion. That LSU win will likely become a very good win (better than a 23) come Feb. I didn't look it up but I would think their SOS is #20 or better.
 
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rammad90

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Jan 19, 2010
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I used to be of the mindset that the rankings didn't matter. However, I have done a 180 on this topic. You make an excellent point, and it is the one point that made me change my opinion a while back. In today's world especially, the "free" publicity that goes with being ranked and having your highlights shown on ESPN and CBS, makes it a potentially valuable recruiting tool. For a school like VCU, with fewer resources than most of the top 25, that free publicity from being in the top 25 is incredibly important.
HBK, I was the same way. Until the FF and an all the free pub, and applications jump.
 
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Who_Dat_Ninja

Top Member
Dec 3, 2016
87
144
How any rational person can think polls don't have value is beyond me. Obviously they don't count a great deal early in the season with respect to the selection committee or determining who will have the best program come March, but the residual benefit is huge. Anytime a non P5 can get their name in literally thousands of publications and mentions on TV/Radio nationally is huge. The national marketing value is off the charts. People that rarely see your name mentioned see it every day. Perhaps the greatest value comes from the impact on the recruiting function. We all say to make that jump to the next level we need to sign more elite recruits. Well guess what - it's a lot easier for a kid who is under enormous peer group pressure to wear your schools Jersey when he walks down the hall in school after having committed to VCU. When he's queried as to why he signed with VCU vs. a P5 program he can say "hey man were ranked and are a consistent participant in post season play." I've seen this close-up. No question NCAA post season participation is the number one variable but being ranked certainly has it's benefits. Think moral suasion. Another benefit is how John-Q-Public as well as Corporate America perceives your program and the potential for an increase in giving.

The point is, while it may not impact the analytics, particularly early on, it can have a very substantial overall positive impact on the program.
Well said... Might I also add that come "Selection Day" they look at wins vs "ranked opponents" (even if the opponents are no longer ranked - they give a higher quality win to a win against a "ranked opponent" at that time). So the rankings represent how teams were playing "at that given moment" during the season.

Some teams may fall off, however those teams could have shown competence during a stretch in December that made them a formidable team to score a win against. The rankings give you a historical measurement and context throughout the season to refer back too.
 

RamDanFan

Top Member
Jan 19, 2015
324
541
Well said... Might I also add that come "Selection Day" they look at wins vs "ranked opponents" (even if the opponents are no longer ranked - they give a higher quality win to a win against a "ranked opponent" at that time). So the rankings represent how teams were playing "at that given moment" during the season.

Some teams may fall off, however those teams could have shown competence during a stretch in December that made them a formidable team to score a win against. The rankings give you a historical measurement and context throughout the season to refer back too.
1 of the best post I’ve ever seen on this board.
 

VCU Heel

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Aug 7, 2012
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The truth is that the AP and Coaches’ polls don’t mean anything in March either when it comes to the NCAA Tournament. They aren’t major factors used by the Selection Committee. NET is much more important for that.

The AP and Coaches’ polls are always about exposure, brand building, and pride. It doesn’t matter if it’s March or November. Being ranked helps our program and it’s a source of pride for the players and the fans. It is ALWAYS better to be ranked than not to be ranked.
 

Mistachill

Top Member
Apr 20, 2009
16,599
27,138
The truth is that the AP and Coaches’ polls don’t mean anything in March either when it comes to the NCAA Tournament. They aren’t major factors used by the Selection Committee. NET is much more important for that.

The AP and Coaches’ polls are always about exposure, brand building, and pride. It doesn’t matter if it’s March or November. Being ranked helps our program and it’s a source of pride for the players and the fans. It is ALWAYS better to be ranked than not to be ranked.
As HBK alluded to, it depends on how you define "mean anything." Maybe from a tangible perspective it doesn't mean much in terms of the NCAA tournament. But I agree with others, there are numerous benefits of being ranked that are more intangible than you can really quantify. There are certainly no negatives to being ranked.
 

VCU Heel

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Aug 7, 2012
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As HBK alluded to, it depends on how you define "mean anything." Maybe from a tangible perspective it doesn't mean much in terms of the NCAA tournament. But I agree with others, there are numerous benefits of being ranked that are more intangible than you can really quantify. There are certainly no negatives to being ranked.
I think you just repeated what I said with different words. LOL
 
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