VCU cancels the best rivalry in Virginia college basketball

theyaintwantit

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Yes. Wood Started his athletic administration career at VCU as the ticket manager. From VCU, he then went to UVA and then Western Kentucky where he became athletic director.
And now ODU fans think he's full of sh1t.
Life comes full circle, am I right?
 

BradRamFan

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Absolutely not. Here are VCU's records vs. in-state D1 teams it's played more than 5 times:

VCU vs. ODU - 52-40
VCU vs. Richmond - 57-32
VCU vs. George Mason - 45-22
VCU vs. JMU - 44-21
VCU vs. William & Mary - 39-12
VCU vs. Virginia Tech - 11-10
VCU vs. UVA - 2-13
VCU vs. Hampton - 8-1
VCU vs. Radford - 6-3
VCU vs. Liberty - 6-1 (not counting the hurricane relief exhibition where Liberty defeated VCU)

The only one of those matchups that isn't lopsided one way or the other is the one against Virginia Tech, and Virginia Tech is highly unlikely to start a series with VCU after being utterly obliterated in our most recent meeting in 2013 (which itself was the first time they played since 1995 when both schools were in the Metro Conference).
That UVa number is highly embarrassing. But other than that, the list is very highly respectable and probably makes us the 2nd or 3rd best team in the state of Virginia.....or pretty much tied with Tech for #2. I wonder how many Va school games Tech has played, not including UVA, over the last 50 years and what their record is.
 

urmite

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That UVa number is highly embarrassing. But other than that, the list is very highly respectable and probably makes us the 2nd or 3rd best team in the state of Virginia.....or pretty much tied with Tech for #2. I wonder how many Va school games Tech has played, not including UVA, over the last 50 years and what their record is.
How about 72 years?

 

WillWeaverRVA

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That UVa number is highly embarrassing. But other than that, the list is very highly respectable and probably makes us the 2nd or 3rd best team in the state of Virginia.....or pretty much tied with Tech for #2. I wonder how many Va school games Tech has played, not including UVA, over the last 50 years and what their record is.
I like Sports Reference's head-to-head tool because it makes doing the research easy. Here's Virginia Tech's records against in-state opponents (minimum of 5 games). They seem to be allergic to playing in-state opponents these days.

(VT vs. UVA 46-64)
VT vs. William & Mary 60-26 - last played 2005
VT vs. Richmond 57-25 - last played 2009
VT vs. VMI 50-10 - last played 2020
VT vs. VCU 10-11 - last played 2013
VT vs. Washington & Lee 13-8 - last played 1959 (dropped to what is now D3 in 1962)
VT vs. ODU 12-8 - last played 2007
VT vs. Liberty 12-3 - last played 2019
VT vs. JMU 10-4 - last played 2006
 
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some great D2 players besides Oakley
Earl Monroe
Bobby Dandridge
Walt Frazier (a few of the years at SIU) - I think they were D1 his last when they won NIT
George Iceman Gervin
Phil Jackson

Southern Illinois was "college division" when it won the NIT in '67. The Division 1-2-3 designation didn't come into play until mid '70s. Previously, it was "University Division" and "College Division," which is confusing. Many D-2 players in Naismith Hall of Fame, including Richmonder Dandridge, VUU's Wallace, Grambling's Willis Reed, Dick Barnett of Tennessee State, Al Attles (NC A&T), Zelmo Beaty (Prairie View) and many others, primarily from HBCU"s prior to 1990s. VCU legends Jesse Dark and Bernard Harris were still "College Division" when they suited up for the Rams in early '70s.
 
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And these VCU guys would destroy those VUU guys. The VUU guys are really old, some of our guys are more recent players, younger and still able to play.

I hope you are kidding ... of course these "all time teams" would be based on players' prime years .... but assuming you are serious, VCU would kill the All-Time San Francisco team (won back to back NCAAs) since KC Jones is dead and Bill Russell is 88. Also, Don's coach Phil Woolpert would likely make some poor decisions on the bench since he left this earth in 1987.
 
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There's absolutely no getting around D-2 being a lesser level of basketball than D-1 so pretending like the accomplishments are the equivalent is disingenuous. It's almost as if you consider VCU's final four being equal to a D-2 final four or winning CIAA player of the year being similar to winning A-10 player of the year.

And including NBA accomplishments is also disingenuous since that involves considering a player's development under other entities that have nothing do to with schools in question. That's why I always disagreed with retiring a college player's number based in part by their pro accomplishments.

Also, when you say "all-time five" that insinuates a "team," meaning pg, sg and essentially two forwards and a center. Otherwise why not make it a all-time six or 10 or 12. Conveniently setting the VCU squad with four guards and a forward is not an all-time team in my opinion. I'm also taking the guy to who took us to the final four as my coach. Not to mention, since you have an established bias towards VUU, you're probably not the best person to select VCU's five since you hate the school.

But this is all a matter of opinion, so there's no definitive right or wrong in any of this.

Selecting all-time teams is always a dicey proposition. Do you pick based on accomplishments only at the school in question, or eventual success on another level? Generally it's a mixture of the two. Let's take high school for example: do you pick an all-time team based on much a kid did to help you win a championship ... or on how his star brightened on the next level? At VCU, even the great Henderson might get left off had he never played in the NBA .... and at VUU, none of the NBA stars to be played on national championship teams. There's no easy answer; but always an interesting topic. In baseball and football, it would be based to a decree on position played. Not so in hoops - you go with the five best. Basketball positions are fluid - for example Calvin Duncan could play four different positions and excel at all.
 
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Mistachill

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Anybody remember Queen's collage?
Let's remember that some of the players going to VUU were for academic reasons, not athletic. Yes, overall D-1 is superior to D-2, but lets not think those players mentioned through these post couldn't compete against D-1 on a good day.
No doubt. But we're talking generally not absolute, 100%.
 

Mistachill

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The VCU players you mention are all top notch and deserve being "in the discussion" ... I was just going with top five all time ... RE Smart vs. Barnett ... consider, the VCU budget 1979-85 was a mere pittance of the 21st century Rams' spending ... and while Barnett never guided the Rams to "the second weekend," he took VCU to its very first NCAA and four in a five-year period without benefit of an on-campus facility. Also the NCAA field was smaller then. RE VUU - this is what some might find strange .... The Panthers have won three NCAA D-2 crowns, but none with the most recognized players, M Davis, Oakley, T. Davis, English or Wallace .. VUU has a long bench through the ages ... and before I go, let's put Jesse Dark "in the discussion."
The fact that JD left VCU for Tulsa compared to Shaka transitioning from here to Texas probably settles how they were viewed as coaches.

I also think it's a slippery slope thinking coaches who did more with less would automatically do more with more. Pollio got a lot done at the D-2 level, not so much once he elevated to D-1.
 

Mistachill

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Selecting all-time teams is always a dicey proposition. Do you pick based on accomplishments only at the school in question, or eventual success on another level? Generally it's a mixture of the two. Let's take high school for example: do you pick an all-time team based on much a kid did to help you win a championship ... or on how his star brightened on the next level? At VCU, even the great Henderson might get left off had he never played in the NBA .... and at VUU, none of the NBA stars to be played on national championship teams. There's no easy answer; but always an interesting topic. In baseball and football, it would be based to a degree on position played. Not so in hoops - you go with the five best. Basketball positions are fluid - for example Calvin Duncan could play four different positions and excel at all.
I think it's pretty clear, you pick based on what they did playing for the institutions being discussed. Let be honest, to do otherwise usually involves trying to set the stage to hit someone up for fundraising down the road.

I'm not sure what games you watched Duncan play four positions.
 

RowdyPkunk

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I think it's pretty clear, you pick based on what they did playing for the institutions being discussed. Let be honest, to do otherwise usually involves trying to set the stage to hit someone up for fundraising down the road.

I'm not sure what games you watched Duncan play four positions.
Exactly... prime example is a guy like Troy Daniels. He arguably is the greatest 3 pt Shooter in VCU history, but during his time at VCU that's pretty much all he was used for. And the only thing he absolutely excelled at.

Is that enough to put him over a guy like Brandon Rozzell, B.A. Walker... etc. among other guards who shoot the 3 well... but also had other aspects to their games that make them better overall players than Troy during their time at VCU... despite neither of them making it to the NBA. (though both had very successful overseas careers).

That's not meant to be a knock on Troy at all... but when someone says the "All-Time VCU Team" it should be based on what they did at VCU.
 

Wolfpack Ram

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And now ODU fans think he's full of sh1t.
Life comes full circle, am I right?

Pretty sure Wood wasn't the "Lone Ranger" that pushed for football at fodu. There was a lot of alumni pressure to start football. Once the football train left the station, Wood's conference affiliation options dried up. Lot's of people to blame at fodu other than just laying it all at the feet of Wood. And facility wise, Wood has delivered in all sports at fodu. They have a new football stadium, new basketball practice facility, in the process of renovating the baseball stadium and the women's volleyball team, which fodu just started, has newly renovated facilities.

Now Jeff Jones, that's 100% on Wood.
 
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I think it's pretty clear, you pick based on what they did playing for the institutions being discussed. Let be honest, to do otherwise usually involves trying to set the stage to hit someone up for fundraising down the road.

I'm not sure what games you watched Duncan play four positions.

RE all-time ... about four years ago the Times-Dispatch picked "the greatest player ever at each high school." It was based overwhelming on an athlete's career achievements. Not saying that is correct, but that tends to be way these thing are selected. Dandridge got it for Maggie Walker even though the Green Dragons never won the VIA title while he was there. Dandridge was a late bloomer who didn't start to come into his own until he was at Norfolk State. That said, it was hard to hide two NBA titles. RE Calvin Duncan ... as a senior the springy, powerfully built 6-3 for-guard averaged 15.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.4 assists. He was capable of scoring and defending anywhere on the floor, much like man-child Jesse Dark before him. More recently a comparison might be Korey Billbury as a do-it-all kind of Ram.
 

duncanlamb

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P
RE all-time ... about four years ago the Times-Dispatch picked "the greatest player ever at each high school." It was based overwhelming on an athlete's career achievements. Not saying that is correct, but that tends to be way these thing are selected. Dandridge got it for Maggie Walker even though the Green Dragons never won the VIA title while he was there. Dandridge was a late bloomer who didn't start to come into his own until he was at Norfolk State. That said, it was hard to hide two NBA titles. RE Calvin Duncan ... as a senior the springy, powerfully built 6-3 for-guard averaged 15.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.4 assists. He was capable of scoring and defending anywhere on the floor, much like man-child Jesse Dark before him. More recently a comparison might be Korey Billbury as a do-it-all kind of Ram.

Moses Malone, Ralph Sampson, Allen Iverson, Alonzo Mourning, Bobby Dandridge, JR Reid, Grant Hill, Randolf Childress, Tommy Amaker...just off the top of my head.
 
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