Way too early promising stats: Talented young bigs

Natty

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A seriously small sample size (about 21 minutes total for each), but I wanna point out some quick stats that have also matched the eye test that I'm curious to see how they are taken into consideration heading into this matchup against Memphis today.

Player Efficiency Rating
24.9 - Jamir Watkins (currently best on the team)
21.7 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (currently second best)

True Shooting Percentage
65.7% - Mikeal Brown-Jones (2nd)
60.9% - Jamir Watkins (4th)

Points per 40 minutes
22.9 - Jamir Watkins (2nd)
18 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (4th)

Rebounds per 40 minutes
11.4 - Jamir Watkins (1st)
6 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (6th)

Again, EXTREMELY early in so a small sample, but that same sample exists for others as well and it ain't as good. But also what's more impressive to me about those numbers is the competition. Utah State and West Virginia have some seriously legit front courts, so to post that type of efficiency in your first two college games against those first two opponents (both top-50 defenses last season, WVU 3rd-ranked D nationally)....is something worth monitoring.

I also think those guys just reeeeeally pass the early eye test (which typically ain't my thang). They are long, versatile dudes with size that IMO are what I imagine are the types of players Rhoades has been looking for since he got here. I think both could be serious matchup problems. Curious to see if we'll see more from both today.
 

duncanlamb

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A seriously small sample size (about 21 minutes total for each), but I wanna point out some quick stats that have also matched the eye test that I'm curious to see how they are taken into consideration heading into this matchup against Memphis today.

Player Efficiency Rating
24.9 - Jamir Watkins (currently best on the team)
21.7 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (currently second best)

True Shooting Percentage
65.7% - Mikeal Brown-Jones (2nd)
60.9% - Jamir Watkins (4th)

Points per 40 minutes
22.9 - Jamir Watkins (2nd)
18 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (4th)

Rebounds per 40 minutes
11.4 - Jamir Watkins (1st)
6 - Mikeal Brown-Jones (6th)

Again, EXTREMELY early in so a small sample, but that same sample exists for others as well and it ain't as good. But also what's more impressive to me about those numbers is the competition. Utah State and West Virginia have some seriously legit front courts, so to post that type of efficiency in your first two college games against those first two opponents (both top-50 defenses last season, WVU 3rd-ranked D nationally)....is something worth monitoring.

I also think those guys just reeeeeally pass the early eye test (which typically ain't my thang). They are long, versatile dudes with size that IMO are what I imagine are the types of players Rhoades has been looking for since he got here. I think both could be serious matchup problems. Curious to see if we'll see more from both today.


Watkins is not a big.
 
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Natty

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Watkins is not a big.

6'5 (on a good day) Mike'L Simms played the vast majority of our power forward minutes last year.

6'7 Jamir Watkins has played the third highest percentage of power forward minutes for us behind 6'6 Vince Williams and 6'9 Corey Douglas.

Our most successful 4 men in this Final 4 era have been 6'5 Bradford Burgess and 6'6 Treveon Graham.

Think what you want, but at VCU, Jamir very much is lined up to play a major role in our front court during his career...even if he's "just" 6'7 (as a freshman). Oh and it's worth pointing out Jamir currently leads us in total rebound percentage at 15.2% (he leads the team in both offensive and defensive rebound percentage...so whether or not he looks like a big to you, he's playing bigger than guys who have a size advantage on him).
 

duncanlamb

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Well, Douglas and Stockard are playing the role of bigs for VCU and they are 6'8. Watkins is 6'7 and Brown-Jones is 6'8. The team seems to respond well with them down low while playing a smaller line-up.

West Virginia out rebounded us 45 - 31 and 21 - 14 on the offensive glass. We shot 20-43 (46.5%) from 2. Given we have a 7'1 245, 6' 8 240, 6'9 220 and 6'9 220, 6' 8 220 across the front aand anyone needs to Watkins as a permanen solution at the 4 is appalling.


No. Our bigs need to lay a body on someone, box out and grab rebounds. It is that simple.
 
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AlienAiden

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West Virginia out rebounded us 45 - 31 and 21 - 14 on the offensive glass. We shot 20-43 (46.5%) from 2. Given we have a 7'1 245, 6' 8 240, 6'9 220 and 6'9 220, 6' 8 220 across the front aand anyone needs to Watkins as a permanen solution at the 4 is appalling.


No. Our bigs need to lay a body on someone, box out and grab rebounds. It is that simple.
You quoted me and put words in my mouth. Carry on.
 
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It's interesting (but understandable) how the term "Big's" means different things to different people.

I generally don't get into the debate thing but.... "Our bigs need to lay a body on someone, box out and grab rebounds. It is that simple." Maybe simple in theory but something very different in reality. Developing quality front court players is a process that often times takes years.
 
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6'5 (on a good day) Mike'L Simms played the vast majority of our power forward minutes last year.

6'7 Jamir Watkins has played the third highest percentage of power forward minutes for us behind 6'6 Vince Williams and 6'9 Corey Douglas.

Our most successful 4 men in this Final 4 era have been 6'5 Bradford Burgess and 6'6 Treveon Graham.

Think what you want, but at VCU, Jamir very much is lined up to play a major role in our front court during his career...even if he's "just" 6'7 (as a freshman). Oh and it's worth pointing out Jamir currently leads us in total rebound percentage at 15.2% (he leads the team in both offensive and defensive rebound percentage...so whether or not he looks like a big to you, he's playing bigger than guys who have a size advantage on him).
While historically we play guys out of position that had mainly to do with not having a wealth of bigs to draw from, inability to develope ones we got and use them effectively.
Well we DO have them now.
Time will tell with development and strategy.
Jamir sees himself as a wing it seems, doesnt mind jacking 3s.
DL is right. Our big kids need to play big. Use that size, use that meat and grab some boards. Yes blocks are nice too.
May have to treat them like 25 fouls again tonight with Cissie (sp?) But as we grow into being a team lets make good use of all these terrific assets.
 
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duncanlamb

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You quoted me and put w

6'5 (on a good day) Mike'L Simms played the vast majority of our power forward minutes last year.

6'7 Jamir Watkins has played the third highest percentage of power forward minutes for us behind 6'6 Vince Williams and 6'9 Corey Douglas.

Our most successful 4 men in this Final 4 era have been 6'5 Bradford Burgess and 6'6 Treveon Graham.

Think what you want, but at VCU, Jamir very much is lined up to play a major role in our front court during his career...even if he's "just" 6'7 (as a freshman). Oh and it's worth pointing out Jamir currently leads us in total rebound percentage at 15.2% (he leads the team in both offensive and defensive rebound percentage...so whether or not he looks like a big to you, he's playing bigger than guys who have a size advantage on him).

We spent alot of money hiring an actual big man coach with extensive experience experience at the college and professional. We have heavily recruited at least 8-12 4* start bigs over the last 2 years. We used 3 scholarships on a 7 footer and a 6'8 240 pound Big 12 wide body with at least 100 games under his belt, a top 50 center with a 7'4 wing span and 4 * power forward who was committed to a Big 10 school.

Coach rhoades has repeatedly said over the last 2 years that our offensive scheme works when we get at least 2 touches in the paint as we move the ball.

We starting at 2 bigs.

I dont believe the plan is to play small ball. If it is then we wasted 4 scholarships for nothing.
 

PRock

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Culver is a legit 6’10, 255lbs and quick twitch, he has NBA athleticism and talent, has been inconsistent, but a junior now and will be a problem in the Big 12. Tshiebwe is 6’9, 260 can jump out of the gym, was a 5 star recruit and PA player of the year.

Our big bigs cannot come close to matching their athleticism and our athletic bigs are physically overmatched. Now we all know a big part of rebounding is effort, there are a lot of teams we will out work, but WVU isn’t one of them. Unless we can win TO battle handily (we did) and hit perimeter shots consistently (we did not), we will not beat a team with a frontline like WVUs (fortunately there are few and none play in the A10).

For all the handwringing about getting handled on the boards, we shoot 33% from deep yesterday, we win.

Good news is we match up better with Memphis on the inside so should expect a better rebounding performance, but we’ll have to defend the 3, protect the ball and hit shots to have a chance.
 

Love2Ram

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PRock said it best. Having a few large bodies doesn't mean we can just throw them out there and expect them to keep everyone out of the paint. Height and weight is only part of the story. WVa's front line was stronger and significantly more talented. It was evident before the ball went up we'd be out matched under the basket. Deal with it and move on. The whining about losing the rebound battle yesterday is nerve racking.
 
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West Virginia out rebounded us 45 - 31 and 21 - 14 on the offensive glass. We shot 20-43 (46.5%) from 2. Given we have a 7'1 245, 6' 8 240, 6'9 220 and 6'9 220, 6' 8 220 across the front aand anyone needs to Watkins as a permanen solution at the 4 is appalling.


No. Our bigs need to lay a body on someone, box out and grab rebounds. It is that simple.
So we have 2 6'8" guys who are in the 4th year and they don't know how to block out or rebound and a 7'1" guy who does whatever in the heck he is doing. Go with Ward as the starter and rotate the front line around with Douglas and major Watkins and MJB minutes. I would rather be smaller and quicker than big and slow. The bigs may help us against A10 competition but not against the big boys. If Ward can stay out of foul trouble he should at least be getting 20 minutes a game.
 

Ramdog

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West Virginia out rebounded us 45 - 31 and 21 - 14 on the offensive glass. We shot 20-43 (46.5%) from 2. Given we have a 7'1 245, 6' 8 240, 6'9 220 and 6'9 220, 6' 8 220 across the front aand anyone needs to Watkins as a permanen solution at the 4 is appalling.


No. Our bigs need to lay a body on someone, box out and grab rebounds. It is that simple.
Talent isn't measured in inches
 

N Mollen

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Not worried (yet) about the performance of our front line. It would have been hard to pick two teams that pose worse matchups down low for us than WVa and USU, especially right out of the gate. WVa is always elite at rebounding, and this year they have ridiculous depth and length down low. USU has an NBA center and other high level talents down low. Not really a good test for a kid like BMB in his first high-level D1 test, Ward who barely played last year, and Corey, who was out for a long stretch getting treatment.

After today, we won't meet front lines like this until (one hopes) the NCAAT. By then, we'll know what we have in BMB and Ward. And yeah, I am already loving what I see in MBJ and Jamir.
 
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