Weird (bad) big man shooting stat

Celticguy

Celticguy

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I think its fair to say that the last year or 4 the team has become right much "longer" and athletic.
I think the issue is that when you speed up the ball movement you suffer your ability to manipulate the ball and your footwork when you're going to take the shot. In short you lose just a bit of control.
I see this happening all the time in a variety of ways. Sometimes it doesn't prevent the play from working but other times it does.
Its why I always type "run around like crazy" with quotes. Do you want the ball hot ? Of course, but not too hot to touch.
Maybe dialing it back a click gets the needed to finish.
And this impacts bigs more as they are generally feeling contact every time they touch the ball. Especially when they shoot. The perimeter guys are supposed to be open ot wide open so they dont feel it like the bigs.
Cause and effect.
 
Natty

Natty

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N Mollen said:
LOL yep. Anyone who puts stock in a stat that suggests Djunk and DeLoach are effectively the same offensive player is huffing glue.

The problem for our non-Levi bigs is that they are terrible, awful, putrid FT shooters and FTs are a component of true shooting. MBJ is blistering the nets at a 58% rate, Hason is at 33%, Jimmy Nichols is at 20%, and Jaylen, well, Jaylen's FT shooting percentage is too low to reveal on a family site like this.
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I think you missed the point of that comparison.

I'm saying Hason's true shooting % is down massively this year and compares to essentially our worst shooting bigs ever. But not only that, there are FOUR bigs one one team posting that number, way more than any other team we've had since Shaka got to town (and I'd guess historically a lot as well), which to me suggests there's something else going on. I'm sure that likely has something to do with PG play, but I'm curious as to what coach thinks is going on there.

Side note/update: Mikeal Brown-Jones shot 39% from three as a senior at IMG, so hopefully that number regresses to the mean.

Also just noting that Hason has actually been a good free throw shooting big so far his career (67.1%, but was 73.3% last year). But even this year if he had made all nine of his free throws (instead of three), his true shooting percentage would still be below 50% (47.8%), which is jus not what we're used to with him.
 
theyaintwantit

theyaintwantit

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Natty said:
Discovered a random stat just now that's troubling and I'm curious why it is.

Basically a VERY good true shooting percentage for a big is anything over 60% (Skeen in 2011, Mo twice, Tillman twice, Santos-Silva's soph year, Hason last year, etc)...anything over 65% is ELITE (Obi Toppin stuff). Anything over 55% is good, anything from 50-55% is, I think, the bare minimum considering the distance your shots are supposed to be coming from (plus the free throw factor added into that number)...but then there's below 50%, which is officially bad. Below is a list of sub-50% true shooting percentages since Mike first got to town for what I consider "true bigs".

Big man true shooting % since 2010

Under 50%
2010 - Kirill 45.8%
2011 - Reddic 49.6%, Veal 48.3% (2)
2012 - Haley 48.7%
2013 - Guest 47.5%, Tuoyo 34.9% (2)
2014 - Shannon 42.9%, Guest 37.7% (2)
2015- Guest 46.9%
2016 - none
2017 - none
2018 - Djonkam 41.9%
2019 - Mobley* 48.2%
2021 - MBJ* 47.6%, BMB 29.5% (2)
2022 - DeLoach 41.8%, Ward 40.9%, MBJ* 46.4%, Nichols 40.7% (4)

*note that Mobley played more like a wing than a big and so far MBJ offensively is doing the same.
*also note that none of the bigs posted sub-50% true shooting % numbers during the Will Wade years, although Hamdy got darn close

Overall I'm just a bit fascinated that we've got these three long athletes this year in DeLoach, Ward and Nichols posting sub-Lewis Djonkam freshman year shooting numbers. That is MIND BLOWING to me, especially considering two of them (Hason and Jimmy) have posted 60%+ true shooting percentages already during their careers and DeLoach is long, athletic AND...I think has shown some promising signs as far as post moves and awareness down low.

I'm so curious to what coach thinks about that and why he thinks it's happening (not saying that to be annoying or a hater, just genuinely curious to why they think that is). Those dudes are far too talented (and long...and athletic) to be posting numbers that low. I'd imagine the easy answer is point guard play, but still, that's insanely low.
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Natty - as always, I appreciate the data behind your posts. Through 6 games, it’s been clear that Ward has missed some bunnies. I think he even airballed a 6ft shot vs UConn.

Not having Ace might be part of it, but do you think Ward has been pressing at all?

DeLoach % doesn’t surprise me because I feel like he’s had several o-rebounds where he’s awkwardly attempted a put-back. I love the fire, but he’s still a little raw.
 
N Mollen

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Natty said:
I think you missed the point of that comparison.

I'm saying Hason's true shooting % is down massively this year and compares to essentially our worst shooting bigs ever. But not only that, there are FOUR bigs one one team posting that number, way more than any other team we've had since Shaka got to town (and I'd guess historically a lot as well), which to me suggests there's something else going on. I'm sure that likely has something to do with PG play, but I'm curious as to what coach thinks is going on there.

Side note/update: Mikeal Brown-Jones shot 39% from three as a senior at IMG, so hopefully that number regresses to the mean.

Also just noting that Hason has actually been a good free throw shooting big so far his career (67.1%, but was 73.3% last year). But even this year if he had made all nine of his free throws (instead of three), his true shooting percentage would still be below 50% (47.8%), which is jus not what we're used to with him.
Click to expand...
I understood the point. Hason was a 73% FT shooter last year, and his true shooting percentage wasn't garbage. This year, he's hot garbage at the line, and his TS% is awful too.
 
D

duncanlamb

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VCU Heel said:
I don’t agree. We need big men that can hit perimeter shots. And he has a good shot. Numbers can be deceiving when there’s not a large sample size.
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Agreed. He shot 39% from 3 at IMG, 61% fg overall, and 80 from the ft line. All he needs is reps.
 
D

duncanlamb

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theyaintwantit said:
DeLoach % doesn’t surprise me because I feel like he’s had several o-rebounds where he’s awkwardly attempted a put-back. I love the fire, but he’s still a little raw.
Click to expand...

He has a face up game and outside shot. (See below).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377790000360738819


I think rhoades needs to give the game to him face up 15-18 feet from the basket and let him operate on mismatches.

Having him there would give levi operating space around the basket.
 
Ramdog

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S

share the ball

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MR's challenge is dividing minutes - too many talented freshman are only getting 10-13 minutes (only one with real consistency in minutes in Nunn - he has more upside than Tsohonis so I agree give him 22-28 minutes of run
Also sophomores like MBJ has more upside than the Ward/Stockhard/ duo and Providence transfer
I don't want us to be like U of R and get stuck in rut of playing the same upper classmen to the detriment of the more talented young-ins just because they are more experienced and coach is more comfortable with vets
I use Ace as an example from last year - we committed early to him playing 25 minutes + a game and by mid season he was playing like a vet (normal MR approach is let him play 10-15 minutes and cut his teeth and then give him serious run in soph and junior year
the more I watch players they normally are improving only in those first two years and then set into who they are and plateau
 
C

CAAFan66

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Celticguy said:
I think its fair to say that the last year or 4 the team has become right much "longer" and athletic.
I think the issue is that when you speed up the ball movement you suffer your ability to manipulate the ball and your footwork when you're going to take the shot. In short you lose just a bit of control.
I see this happening all the time in a variety of ways. Sometimes it doesn't prevent the play from working but other times it does.
Its why I always type "run around like crazy" with quotes. Do you want the ball hot ? Of course, but not too hot to touch.
Maybe dialing it back a click gets the needed to finish.
And this impacts bigs more as they are generally feeling contact every time they touch the ball. Especially when they shoot. The perimeter guys are supposed to be open ot wide open so they dont feel it like the bigs.
Cause and effect.
Click to expand...

I'm reading "poor passing to the inside, a pass setting up a big for better chance of failure".
 
ISwamRam

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Our offensive game as a team is a big head scratcher...so I'm not sure if I'm concerned about this stat at the moment. And I wonder how much having 3 similar bigs (Hasson, DeLoach, Nichols) + 2 more in Levi and MBJ is a factor here. I can't recall ever having this 'problem' before and maybe the front court is still 'figuring it out', to use an over used term.
But I also agree we need a big who can shoot the 3. I like Big Hass and MBJ's strokes from there.
 
BaNgMyPrOgRaM

BaNgMyPrOgRaM

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I hope Hasan has better development, and results, from here on out, but I love Brown-Jones and DeLoach!!
 
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