Weird (bad) big man shooting stat

[Love2Ram]

He was playing against 4 and 5*'s in the class of 2021 enrolled at IMG, Montverde, Oak Hill etc.

Baylor hung a national title last year and is currently ranked 4th in the country. You cannot equate the two.

 

[WillWeaverRVA]

He was playing against 4 and 5*'s in the class of 2021 enrolled at IMG, Montverde, Oak Hill etc.

There is a massive difference between high school prospects (even 4* or 5* prospects) and a team of college players with college experience that won a national title. In any event, it usually takes time for talent in high school to adapt to the college game, if it ever does at all (I’m sure our system is way different than any Jalen DeLoach has been involved in during high school).

 

[duncanlamb]

Baylor hung a national title last year and is currently ranked 4th in the country. You cannot equate the two.

Not equating anything. Mike Rhoades SPECiFICALLY recruited bigs like Jones, Deloach and Nichols for our system because length, athleticism and skilled versatility on both ends on the floor. All the new bigs can face up, put the ball on the deck, create their own shot.

Stockard is our postup big, he can kick out to any of those 3 for an open jumper.

Go back and watch what Baylor does with everyday john, Mayer and Thamba. One big is posting up while the other outside as one of the kickout options. It creates lane space for the post up big.

 

[Valley drop step]

The true bigs VCU is going to get are not going to have mature games initially. If they did, they would not be here. A mid major big is going to be a little bit of a project. If they have some skill and able to play effectively early on are most likely undersized like MSS, JT or Mo. Guys mentioned like Haley, Djonkam, Bacon etc were reaches. Skeen was an upperclassman transfer. Not to mention he was a major recruit who probably could have made the NBA if not for his knee injury in high school that killed his athleticism.

Blaine’s ODUs teams always had good bigs. They were always upper classman. And he always red shirted his post players. A kid with a frame that big, particularly a kid a mid major can get, needs some time.

Ward is a super athlete, and a defensive eraser. He has no offensive game that has been seen on the court. No outside shot, can’t establish position, no post moves. He can catch and dunk. Ace sets him up well. If he comes back, I would bet Ward will look much better. But being a first round pick seems like ridiculous talk at this point. If he was that, he would be able to get shots and convert now, regardless of who the guards are. That’s the point of a big man.

MBJ outside shot looks decent, and goes up soft. He was efficient enough in high school from 3, and apparently the staff doesn’t mind him taking them if he has a good look. He needs more minutes to get into the flow of the game. Even guards who turned out to be great shooters need that. He’s a good athlete, strong guy with a frame that can handle more weight, good motor and the best rebounder on the roster. Honestly, besides Watkins, and possibly Kern, he probably looks he has more potential to develop into an NBA prospect (with some seasoning) than anybody else on the roster right now. Deloach is a good looking freshman. A redshirt would not have hurt him at all. They both need more minutes and could really become great players.

 

[theyaintwantit]

The true bigs VCU is going to get are not going to have mature games initially. If they did, they would not be here. A mid major big is going to be a little bit of a project. If they have some skill and able to play effectively early on are most likely undersized like MSS, JT or Mo. Guys mentioned like Haley, Djonkam, Bacon etc were reaches. Skeen was an upperclassman transfer. Not to mention he was a major recruit who probably could have made the NBA if not for his knee injury in high school that killed his athleticism.

Blaine’s ODUs teams always had good bigs. They were always upper classman. And he always red shirted his post players. A kid with a frame that big, particularly a kid a mid major can get, needs some time.

Ward is a super athlete, and a defensive eraser. He has no offensive game that has been seen on the court. No outside shot, can’t establish position, no post moves. He can catch and dunk. Ace sets him up well. If he comes back, I would bet Ward will look much better. But being a first round pick seems like ridiculous talk at this point. If he was that, he would be able to get shots and convert now, regardless of who the guards are. That’s the point of a big man.

MBJ outside shot looks decent, and goes up soft. He was efficient enough in high school from 3, and apparently the staff doesn’t mind him taking them if he has a good look. He needs more minutes to get into the flow of the game. Even guards who turned out to be great shooters need that. He’s a good athlete, strong guy with a frame that can handle more weight, good motor and the best rebounder on the roster. Honestly, besides Watkins, and possibly Kern, he probably looks he has more potential to develop into an NBA prospect (with some seasoning) than anybody else on the roster right now. Deloach is a good looking freshman. A redshirt would not have hurt him at all. They both need more minutes and could really become great players.

You provide a lot of good points, but Blaine's ODU teams redshirting bigs in the late 2000s is a LOT different than basketball in 2021.
If a player has decent talent (like Deloach), he did NOT come to VCU to be redshirted.

 

[Valley drop step]

You provide a lot of good points, but Blaine's ODU teams redshirting bigs in the late 2000s is a LOT different than basketball in 2021.
If a player has decent talent (like Deloach), he did NOT come to VCU to be redshirted.

True, and he is good enough to play. I think he was a a higher profile recruit. Nattys list of examples is for the most part lower recruits who were projects, closer to the level Blaine was probably recruiting. It’s not really that surprising they didn’t play that well early and/ or never developed very well here.

 

[duncanlamb]

Jimmy Nichols Jr. - 2021-22 - Men's Basketball - Virginia Commonwealth University

Jimmy Nichols Jr. (55) F - THE BASICS Transfer from Providence who appeared in 51 games, including 27 starts, for the Friars from 2018-21; Will have at least

vcuathletics.com

"
2020-21 (JUNIOR) – AT PROVIDENCE

• Averaged 6.1 points, 2.4 rebounds and 16.9 minutes per game in 16 contests, including eight starts, before an eye injury ended his season in February; Shot .543 (38-of-70) from the field, including .409 (9-of-22) from 3-point range
• Topped double figures on three occasions, including an 11-point effort at Marquette on Jan. 12; Knocked down 3-of-3 from beyond the 3-point arc in that contest
• Dished out five assists at Xavier on Jan. 10"."

Let nichols shoot from corners. He proved he can spot up and hit those in the big east. Space him, deloach and jones out so levi can operate in the paint.

 

[VCU_Redskins]

Other than the freakish outlier last season, have we ever shot it well as a team in the last decade? I dunno not looking it up but it certainly doesn't FEEL like it. It feels like we've sucked from the FT line for as long as I can remember.

It always seemed like people like JQ or Weber or Bones or Mo would never miss, bringing our average up, while the rest of the team was clanging shots off the rim.

I always just assumed thats the nature of the Havoc beast... That not only would the coaches look past some shooting flaws if it meant recruiting a highly athletic player, but that also the few true shooters we DO get we run ragged all game. Add in the extra mass for the big men and yeah... I can see how technique might suffer playing the way we play.

But maybe I'm way off I dunno. Like I said, just based on feeling and memory, I don't have any other stats in front of me.

 

[LQuarles]

@VCU_Redskins last season will not be an outlier. We are recruiting a higher caliber of player/shooter more consistently now, so barring more serious injuries and attrition, our shooting (and ball handling) will gradually improve each year going forward under Rhoades. FINALLY.

Havoc didn't seem to affect Troy, Melvin, or Bones much. Our program's problem has been coach and player attrition, and injuries at literally the most key moments. Every time we start to build a complete team, something bad happens. Smart left, along with shooters Larrier and Kenny Williams. Wade left, along with shooter Doughty. Every time we take two steps forward, we take two steps back.

That's why I truly feel that if Rhoades actually does stay, and recruiting stays on this trajectory, BOOM! All of a sudden a switch will flip, and we'll be shooting lights out every year. It sucks we don't get to see it with Watkins this season. He, Ace, Nunn, Kern, etc. can be a DEADLY shooting team. And with our defense, can you say Elite 8? Then we have Billups and Fermin coming.

Keep being patient, and things will keep getting better. That is not only directed at fans, it's also directed at Rhoades.

 

[VCU_Redskins]

@VCU_Redskins last season will not be an outlier. We are recruiting a higher caliber of player/shooter more consistently now, so barring more serious injuries and attrition, our shooting (and ball handling) will gradually improve each year going forward under Rhoades. FINALLY.

Havoc didn't seem to affect Troy, Melvin, or Bones much. Our program's problem has been coach and player attrition, and injuries at literally the most key moments. Every time we start to build a complete team, something bad happens. Smart left, along with shooters Larrier and Kenny Williams. Wade left, along with shooter Doughty. Every time we take two steps forward, we take two steps back.

That's why I truly feel that if Rhoades actually does stay, and recruiting stays on this trajectory, BOOM! All of a sudden a switch will flip, and we'll be shooting lights out every year. It sucks we don't get to see it with Watkins this season. He, Ace, Nunn, Kern, etc. can be a DEADLY shooting team. And with our defense, can you say Elite 8? Then we have Billups and Fermin coming.

Keep being patient, and things will keep getting better. That is not only directed at fans, it's also directed at Rhoades.

Thanks for the response

I agree with you in a sense, but on the other hand EVERY team has injuries and setbacks and missteps. Are we really that different? Dunno