Winning at the Free Throw Line

[RowdyPkunk]

I find this really surprising considering our improved size compared to most seasons, and this also seems to be a chronic problem. According to Sports-Reference's stats we rank 256th in D1 in offensive rebounds per game. Last season we were 286th and the year before we were 242nd.

But it also kinda makes sense with people making the comments all the time of.. us being so heavily focused on defense.... so pretty much we are forcing up bad shots or turning the ball over.... and just getting back on defense (which at times can also be a problem itself, but thats a different topic for a different thread).

 

[rambunctiousrowdyram]

I find this really surprising considering our improved size compared to most seasons, and this also seems to be a chronic problem. According to Sports-Reference's stats we rank 256th in D1 in offensive rebounds per game. Last season we were 286th and the year before we were 242nd.

Honestly even our final four team sucked at rebounding. We have rare years we’re decent because of players like Tillman and Mo that wanted the ball more than anyone else and they would punt you into broad st before you took it from them.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

Honestly even our final four team sucked at rebounding. We have rare years we’re decent because of players like Tillman and Mo that wanted the ball more than anyone else and they would punt you into broad st before you took it from them.

The difference between the Final 4 year & now tho.... while we did Live & Die by the 3 a lot during the Final 4 year.... most games we were scoring a lot more. Playing a lot more fast paced on both ends. Sure the Turnovers were up, offensive rebounds were prob down.... but overall our scoring was up too.

 

[Mercury]

yup.

H2H here's the O-Reb in each game

VCU / Opponents O-Rebs
Manhattan- 11 / 1 (+10)
Morgan State- 10 / 14 (-4)
Ariz. St.- 8 / 11 (-3)
Pitt- 8 / 12 (-4)
Memphis- 11 / 12 (-1)
Kenn. State- 8 / 14 (-6)

Total: 56 / 64 (-8)

We've given up double digit offensive rebounds in every game but 1.... but dont nearly get as many offensive rebounds.

-8 isn't terrible when you factor in our opponents have gotten up 30 more shots than us on the season. We are winning the FT battle but those inherently don't have a high offensive rebound rate.

 

[AlienAiden]

-8 isn't terrible when you factor in our opponents have gotten up 30 more shots than us on the season. We are winning the FT battle but those inherently don't have a high offensive rebound rate.

Wonder how many of those opponent shots are second chance points.

 

[Ramlove81]

Make the free throws or not (I'd rather we make them) taking a lot of free throws generally means we are being more aggressive. What was one of Shaka's favorite sayings, "Chance goes to the aggressor." I think that's true. I would rather see our guys playing aggressive and probably making some mistakes in the process than tentative. Tentative is killing us right now.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

Wonder how many of those opponent shots are second chance points.

VCU / Opponent 2nd Chance Points
Manhattan- 11 / 2 (+9)
Morgan St- 5 / 11 (-6)
Arizona St- 5 / 10 (-5)
Pitt- 6 / 13 (-7)
Memphis- 7 / 10 (-3)
Kennesaw St- 7 / 8 (-1)

Total- 41 / 54 (-13)

VCU / Opponents Points off Turnovers
Manhattan- 17 / 8 (+9)
Morgan St- 26 / 23 (+3)
Arizona St- 14 / 17 (-3)
Pitt- 23 / 16 (+7)
Memphis- 11 / 26 (-15)
Kennesaw St- 19 / 12 (+7)

Total- 110 / 102 (+8)

 

[rambunctiousrowdyram]

Make the free throws or not (I'd rather we make them) taking a lot of free throws generally means we are being more aggressive. What was one of Shaka's favorite sayings, "Chance goes to the aggressor." I think that's true. I would rather see our guys playing aggressive and probably making some mistakes in the process than tentative. Tentative is killing us right now.

I feel like that’s just our teams under Rhoades tbh. We might have an aggressive player like Bones or Ace I wouldn’t consider us an aggressive team. We’re not clinical when attacking the rim even in quick transition tbh. When you turned the ball over on us years ago it was over on the fast break. Now we throw it away a lot.

 

[bighornn]

A great coach once told me that one of his top objectives was to MAKE more free throws than the other team attempted .... the current VCU coach learned from that coach. Percentage is secondary; would much prefer 17-for-29 to 2-for-2. VCU is 109-for-157; opposition 64-96. 'nuf said.

 

[Valley drop step]

One thing I have noticed is offensive rebounding is weak. Not many guys inside trying to get second chance points.

Yep. Big issue. Giving up second chance points and not getting them. Rebounding is like D. It is about positioning and wanting to get after it.

I find this really surprising considering our improved size compared to most seasons, and this also seems to be a chronic problem. According to Sports-Reference's stats we rank 256th in D1 in offensive rebounds per game. Last season we were 286th and the year before we were 242nd.

This should not be surprising. VCU has been a poor rebounding team for the last 5 years. When we play decent teams who make it a point, we are frequently -10 sometimes more on offensive rebounds. It loses a lot of big games. MR has been recruiting bigger athletes, but it doesn’t seem to matter. Apparently it’s not part of the culture.

 

[mrgeode]

This should not be surprising. VCU has been a poor rebounding team for the last 5 years. When we play decent teams who make it a point, we are frequently -10 sometimes more on offensive rebounds. It loses a lot of big games. MR has been recruiting bigger athletes, but it doesn’t seem to matter. Apparently it’s not part of the culture.

That's not so much an offensive rebounding issue rather than a defensive rebounding one, no? Giving up offensive boards drives me crazy and should aggravate the staff - playing good defense means forcing a miss and finishing the possession with control of the ball. I don't care so much about getting offensive boards of our own though, provided it's because guys are getting back on defense. The plan seems to be to make up for missed rebounding opportunities by getting live ball turnovers, although it's up for debate whether that A: works or B: is good strategy.

In the context of the thread, ORs are great for getting to the line repeatedly. I wouldn't mind seeing JJ get the green light to hunt for them, seems like most of his points right now are going to come from put backs. Wouldn't be upset to try posting Johns instead and let JJ crash the glass. Also not entirely sure I'd mind going small, but I dunno if Jamir is ready for that and it definitely won't help the rebounding.

 

[RowdyPkunk]

That's not so much an offensive rebounding issue rather than a defensive rebounding one, no? Giving up offensive boards drives me crazy and should aggravate the staff - playing good defense means forcing a miss and finishing the possession with control of the ball. I don't care so much about getting offensive boards of our own though, provided it's because guys are getting back on defense. The plan seems to be to make up for missed rebounding opportunities by getting live ball turnovers, although it's up for debate whether that A: works or B: is good strategy.

In the context of the thread, ORs are great for getting to the line repeatedly. I wouldn't mind seeing JJ get the green light to hunt for them, seems like most of his points right now are going to come from put backs. Wouldn't be upset to try posting Johns instead and let JJ crash the glass. Also not entirely sure I'd mind going small, but I dunno if Jamir is ready for that and it definitely won't help the rebounding.

Well its also difficult to get offensive Rebounds when we are shooting so many 3's.... cause either they go in, or we miss & there's 3-4 defenders swarming the paint going after the rebound... and most of the time our bigs are no where close to a rebounding position.

Meanwhile our opponents are attacking the basket & crashing the boards on their offensive end.

Rebounding in general is bad on both ends for us.

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

Well its also difficult to get offensive Rebounds when we are shooting so many 3's.... cause either they go in, or we miss & there's 3-4 defenders swarming the paint going after the rebound... and most of the time our bigs are no where close to a rebounding position.

Meanwhile our opponents are attacking the basket & crashing the boards on their offensive end.

Rebounding in general is bad on both ends for us.

For me, VCU being a poor offensive rebounding team is simple. None of Coach Rhoades' VCU teams have been good at following their shots to the rim. Regarding the team in general, once a VCU shot goes up, Coach Rhoades' teams generally turn a run down court to play defense. I personally don't agree with that philosophy. Do everything you can to keep the ball at your end of the court. Add in 15+ VCU turnovers per game and your offense is going to look anemic.

 

[Ramdog]

Well its also difficult to get offensive Rebounds when we are shooting so many 3's.... cause either they go in, or we miss & there's 3-4 defenders swarming the paint going after the rebound... and most of the time our bigs are no where close to a rebounding position.

Meanwhile our opponents are attacking the basket & crashing the boards on their offensive end.

Rebounding in general is bad on both ends for us.

the owls shot more threes than VCU and killed us on the boards

 

[RowdyPkunk]

For me, VCU being a poor offensive rebounding team is simple. None of Coach Rhoades' VCU teams have been good at following their shots to the rim. Regarding the team in general, once a VCU shot goes up, Coach Rhoades' teams generally turn a run down court to play defense. I personally don't agree with that philosophy. Do everything you can to keep the ball at your end of the court. Add in 15+ VCU turnovers per game and your offense is going to look anemic.

Completely agree. And I know the few times when we've gotten offensive rebounds off of missed 3's... I've said to myself & others around me... I'm ok with us taking these 3's... if we follow our shots & go after the rebounds.

There's 5 guys on the court at a time... in my opinion, no matter what kind of shot we put up... at least 2 guys should be crashing the board EVERY TIME until you see the ball in the net.