Capel Interviewed with Oklahoma w/out VCU Knowing

[Superfan]

There was a great piece on OTL this past week on search firms, mostly about their broad influence (and in some cases corruption) on college football. Pretty surprising how many schools rely on these guys.

 

[BradRamFan]

That is just the nature of the beast right now.

That has been the nature of the beast at VCU going back to Dana Kirk. And it will continue indefinitely as long as we decide to remain a mid-major program. We are a stepping stone.

We have however been very lucky this decade. Mack, Capel, and Grant have all left their positions with a solid or strong team still intact for the new coach to take over. Let's hope that Smart can do the same or that Smart becomes the east coast's Mark Few.

I really don't know how Gonzaga keeps their coach. It is really amazing. Their arena is smaller than ours.

 

[Natty]

Let's hope that Smart can do the same or that Smart becomes the east coast's Mark Few.

I really don't know how Gonzaga keeps their coach. It is really amazing. Their arena is smaller than ours.

There's a simple answer to that question....Mark Few is the man. For some people, a $600,000 salary can take care of one's family. He's a legend at Gonzaga, and I think maybe he's seen what happened to ex Gonzaga coach Dan Monson when he left for greener pastures (he got fired after a few years at Minnesota and is now coaching at Long Beach State).

All in all, I think a $600,000 (or however much he's making now) salary and ultimate job security (not to mention adored by his fans), ...equals a pretty nice quality of life.

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

The only person that has to know is the Athletic Director (Dick Sander at the time) if I'm not mistaken since he has to give the other school permission to speak to the coach. But other than that, this is nothing new. Most people did not learn until late the night before he was going to be announced at OU on ESPN.com (or at least that's how I learned).

The AD has to know if another school is going to be contacting our coach directly. He does NOT have to be informed if our coach is contacted by a recruiting firm hired by another school.

Go back and read Capel's quote. He stated "I met with Oklahoma twice." "And nobody at VCU or any other coach knew." By that quote I am assuming Sander didn't know of the meetings and never granted Oklahoma permission to talk to Capel. Also, the meetings were with Oklahoma. The broker may have been there, but he clearly states the meetings were with Oklahoma.

 

[SPI-DA1]

Reallistically someone is going to contact somebody in an indirect way....both Capel and Grant ran their course here...It is hard to say to turn down more money and security for your family...it does not mean you are loyal...you can like your job and the people in it but if you have a chance to have a better life style who can blame anyone for that...whether it was done out in the open or undercover it was destined to happen...that is the nature of the beast.....

 

[artRAMinMN]

I haven't looked into the NCAA rules about whether there are any rules about coaches talking/being talked to without their schools' permission (maybe 'mobile has insight on that)... but I kinda doubt that there is such a rule, or if there was, that it would survive in court if challenged... freedom of contract would probably trump

unless a coach's contract specifically included terms saying that there had to be permission to talk to others about potential jobs, then the act of doing that kind of talking would not be a contractual violation ... maybe there's the separate issue of tortious interference, but given the fact that this kind of thing seems to happen all the time in the industry, I doubt it could be made to stick

maybe if there is an NCAA rule, or some other regulatory law, then maybe somebody other than the wronged school would step in, but generally it would be up to the jilted party to pursue... but doing so would probably be unwise for lots of practical reasons, with some kind of institutional blackballing being likely ...it's easy to get stuck down in the fine print of rules, laws, and contracts, but the fact is the vast majority of the time pragmatic reality, whether we like it or not, wins the day

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

The problem here is not necessarily a legal issue. It is an issue of ethics. There is absolutely no reason Oklahoma had to meet with Capel twice without VCU having any knowledge. VCU can't compete with the salaries these BCS schools throw at coaches, so it wasn't like Oklahoma thought VCU might "out bid" them for Capel's services. Normally the BCS schools have total control over situations like this when "courting" a mid major coach. The least those BCS schools could do is go about it in an ethical way.

From an ethical and professional courtesy stand point, all it took was one call to the VCU athletic director prior to talking/meeting with Capel. From that point forward, they can meet in the middle of the night wearing rain coats and sun glasses as far as I am concerned.

 

[artRAMinMN]

The problem here is not necessarily a legal issue. It is an issue of ethics. There is absolutely no reason Oklahoma had to meet with Capel twice without VCU having any knowledge. VCU can't compete with the salaries these BCS schools throw at coaches, so it wasn't like Oklahoma thought VCU might "out bid" them for Capel's services. Normally the BCS schools have total control over situations like this when "courting" a mid major coach. The least those BCS schools could do is go about it in an ethical way.

From an ethical and professional courtesy stand point, all it took was one call to the VCU athletic director prior to talking/meeting with Capel. From that point forward, they can meet in the middle of the night wearing rain coats and sun glasses as far as I am concerned.

I hear what you're saying... there would seem to be a sense of courtesy in asking permission, but it's effectively meaningless because denying/declining permission isn't a realistic option. The targeted school is damned if they do and damned if they don't

a polite bully is still a bully, and arguably an ethical handwashing just works to hide that

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

As someone I was talking to earier in the week stated, Curt Flood is responsible for all of this! The "old timers" on these boards will know what I am referencing. The "young bucks" will have google Curt Flood and figure it out.

 

[bighorn]

The Oklahoma deal really doesn't ruffle my feathers.

It was Capel's 2004 job-hunting exploits that seriously made me feel like I was bending over and holding my ankles.

Following VCU's near miss versus Wake in Raleigh - a performance that dramatically enhanced Capel's stock, the ex-Duke star traveled to the San Antonio Final Four - on VCU's dollar - to network, supposedly for the betterment of Rams' hoops.

Somehow, JC3 slipped in an interview with Auburn along the way (very possibly in Alabama). It would be my presumption no permission was requested of VCU administrators prior to submitting that job application, either.

Yes, Wolfpack - I know all about Curt Flood. In addition to opening the doors for free agency in pro sports, he covered oodles of ground in centerfield for the St. Louis Cardinals.

 

[VCU MJ]

Capel's 'secret' interview was preferable and understandable.

The entire College Basketball world was surprised that OK hired a very young, Mid Major coach with no ties to the school, area or conference. Don't you think that Capel was just as much surprised. Discretion was not only best for his career, but for VCU's program & prospects, and his VCU athletes. If it was public and he wasn't hired, I’d imagine every recruit would be worried he would not be their coach. Also, how tuff was it on the team to have to sit through rumors of Grant leaving every year…to only have their hearts ripped out after they bought the lie. These were major issues in every year of Grant's tenure. Why?? Because he publicly flirted with other schools every year, and did NOTHING to deny it. The major outcome from Grant's flirtations landed him large salary increases every year, without guaranteeing us anything.

Capel's discretion was the better part of valor.

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

Capel's 'secret' interview was preferable and understandable.

The entire College Basketball world was surprised that OK hired a very young, Mid Major coach with no ties to the school, area or conference. Don't you think that Capel was just as much surprised. Discretion was not only best for his career, but for VCU's program & prospects, and his VCU athletes. If it was public and he wasn't hired, I’d imagine every recruit would be worried he would not be their coach. Also, how tuff was it on the team to have to sit through rumors of Grant leaving every year…to only have their hearts ripped out after they bought the lie. These were major issues in every year of Grant's tenure. Why?? Because he publicly flirted with other schools every year, and did NOTHING to deny it. The major outcome from Grant's flirtations landed him large salary increases every year, without guaranteeing us anything.

Capel's discretion was the better part of valor.

VCU MJ - I think you are missing my point. No where have I said Capel's meetings wih Oklahoma should have been public. My point is, according to Capel's statement in ESPN magazine, no one at VCU knew of the meetings with Oklahoma. I assume that includes VCU's athletic director. Contacting the VCU athletic director as a professional courtesy does not have be "public". It is also apparent that Capel was also not "up front" with Sander, particularly after meeting with Oklahoma the first time.

Yes Horn, it appears Capel was also not "up front" with the VCU athletic department regarding the Auburn job. Regarding Grant, at least Norwood knew what was going on and could put in place his own contingency plan - both times.

 

[VCU MJ]

Capel's 'secret' interview was preferable and understandable.

The entire College Basketball world was surprised that OK hired a very young, Mid Major coach with no ties to the school, area or conference. Don't you think that Capel was just as much surprised. Discretion was not only best for his career, but for VCU's program & prospects, and his VCU athletes. If it was public and he wasn't hired, I’d imagine every recruit would be worried he would not be their coach. Also, how tuff was it on the team to have to sit through rumors of Grant leaving every year…to only have their hearts ripped out after they bought the lie. These were major issues in every year of Grant's tenure. Why?? Because he publicly flirted with other schools every year, and did NOTHING to deny it. The major outcome from Grant's flirtations landed him large salary increases every year, without guaranteeing us anything.

Capel's discretion was the better part of valor.

VCU MJ - I think you are missing my point. No where have I said Capel's meetings wih Oklahoma should have been public. My point is, according to Capel's statement in ESPN magazine, no one at VCU knew of the meetings with Oklahoma. I assume that includes VCU's athletic director. Contacting the VCU athletic director as a professional courtesy does not have be "public". It is also apparent that Capel was also not "up front" with Sander, particularly after meeting with Oklahoma the first time.

In most cases, letting your boss know you are considering another job is making it public. That would have forced Sander to either press harder into looking for a replacement and/or look for more funds to pay as a tool to keep him here. Both of which we saw with Grant. Both of which are really hard to keep under wraps. Once inquires into coaches and to donors for money start, ain't nothing 'non-public'.

 

[Ramdog]

In most cases, letting your boss know you are considering another job is making it public.

in most cases it also gets you fired...of course that is in the real world, not the coaching world. I read where Grant has already inked a contract extention...not bad considering he & I have coached Bama to the same number of victories to date.

 

[VCU MJ]

In most cases, letting your boss know you are considering another job is making it public.

in most cases it also gets you fired...of course that is in the real world, not the coaching world.

I think you just summed up why Capel didn't tell anyone!