DB's ECU Preview: The Return of Big Mack

My feelings on Mack are mixed. I say this as I wear my Mack McCarthy Basketball School tshirt (sponsored by Richmond Ford). I am not sure we could have turned this program around without some of the risks we took with the players. It was those risks that helped us reformulate into a solid program.

No one wanted to see a ball punted into the the stands at William and Mary, but that kind of stuff was the mere by-product in bringing the kind of players we needed to in order to turn the corner. For the newbies (and I, myself while growing up as a fan in the Fan, still consider myself somewhat of a n00b), VCU was not a destination school for hoop talent in the late 90s. After Sonny left the cupboard bare, we had to bring in a few guys that could help us turn the culture around-- those players gave way to Coach Capel's players and we had the name cashe to recruit more than JUCOs, transfers, foreigners, and 'thugs'. Not to mention, we did not have all thugs on our team, either-- I think in a lot of ways it was blown out of proportion because those players happened to hang around the program longer than they would have under the recent regimes.

At the same time, I hated that I could hear Mack balling out a player from my seats on the endzone. He was a rough guy on players and not terribly identifiable for the student body (the way that Capel and Grant, more youthful, new-age style coaches were). I wonder, though, if it was not an evolution of the kind of players we had. They may have only responded that degree of screaming and he may have felt like he needed to control the team with an iron fist. He also could not ever win on the road and, at times, he gave the team too long of a leash to play (Derrick Reid threes, Josh Graham threes in transition with no one under the hoop, suspect defense most of the time).

He was the right guy for his time. Jeff was the right guy for his time. Grant was the right guy for his time. Hopefully, Shaka can be the right guy for us to take it to the next level.

Let me conclude by saying this--if Coach Mack was responsible for the music heard on the following video, we should not have fired him. We should have given him the needle!

http://vcurams.vcu.edu/multi/embed2/mbb/0102/drexel.html
 
No disresepct intended... this is just some guys on a message board talking... and not trying to be a jerk here. But Mac McCarthy was bad. Just plain awful, in almost every sense, and if you didn't see that while he was here, then you weren't close to the program, or weren't paying attention. To the everage guy up in the stands, he might have been.... just OK- and that would be complimentary. But for the rest of us, and the guys with the inside scoop- he was one of the worst things that could have happened to VCU bsaketball. Finance- since you ask for the perspective of those who didn't like him, I'll add my 2 cents:

1- He was the most fundamentally unsound / disfunctional coach we have ever had. Not even close.
2- His teams made the same mistakes in game 25, as in game 1. Same mistakes in year 1 & year 4.
3- His recruiting was atrocious. He landed a few studs, but they were mostly transfers / JUCOs.
4- The poor recruiting was 2-fold. First, he refused to go see certian kids that he was after, and their families. 2 examples would be Kevin Steemburge and Jai Lewis. Book it. He REFUSED to go see the parents, and said that if the parents made that as a requirement, to meet him as head-coach, then screw it- he would drop them. And they both went to our arch rivals- one to UR and one to Mason. Add to that (fact) that the coaching staff had to hide him from players they were bringing in, and they also had to hide the players' parents- b'c they would have made sure these kids did not come to VCU. This is also a fact, and I have first hand knowledge of that from staffers down at VCU, and insiders. Ask someone about the JUCO kid from the Idaho JUCO (forget the school). Ask them why the kid flew home crying on the airplane he left on. And why he ultimately could not come to school at VCU.

The second aspect to the poor recruiting was the nature / character of many of those he brought in. He had some great kids- like Dom Jones, Lamar and Bo, and others. No doubt. But he had a bunch of not-so good kids (that's really being nice) too. Hey- some of this was because Mac got players off of the junk-heap, through deals he had cultivated, etc.... rather than the old fashioned way of following them, meeting them, and signing them when they knew each other well. See the above point.

5- Mac was a terrible P/R guy. A terrible representaiton of VCU and the VCU family
6- The guy ranted, raved, and acted like an A$$ all over town, often refusing to pay for things / services, such as movie tickets, dry cleaning, etc. This I do NOT know for fact, but have been told by multiple sources. He was horrible for the VCU family.
7- His court-side demeanor was a flat-out embarrassment to the University, the team, and all of us. Period.
8- His treatment of the players was horrible. They hated his guts. Why do you think all of his teams always started off so poorly in the first half of games? Still do. Do better in the second halfs. One reaosn is because of how he had them so negatively charged going into our games. Just awful.
9- His x's and o's were bad. Probably way beyond bad. But at a bare minimum, really bad. And again, the fundamentals, and the teaching / bad habits, etc was absolutely atrocious. Only thing he was good at was defense. He did get our guys to play hard D- and good D.
0- Worse than his court-side demeanor was his off-the-court demaenor when traveling. Again, the staff had to do their best to keep him away from as many people as they could. And he treated those around him like crap most of the time, and everyone around the team got the honor of witnessing that. I would love to tell a couple stories from the Long Island trip in 02' or 03' .... but I won't. Like others said... it's not worth it to get too extreme or vulgar on this board. So I'll stop short of that.

* There are a ton of other reasons. Bottom line: The guy was HORRIBLE. Period. I really don't even see how anyone in their right mind could argue it. But again, I know a lot of people see the 20,000 ft view of things.

* Another key point- and before someone bashes me.... For the record, I thought Sonny Smith was a terrible floor coach. An OK recruiter (never got the entire stable, but usually had 3-4 excellent starters)... and Sonny was the one who started the huge JUCO trend. Mac took it out of Sonny's play-book. Anyway, Sonny was not a very good caoch. But to say that Mac resurected a dead program, and turned it around is ludicrous- at best. Sure- the team Mac inherited was not good. At all. And he had some stinkers to work with. In fact, the last 2 teams Sonny had were not good. But Mac took over in what? 1998? Or after that seaosn. Well heck- the 96' VCU team nearly went undefeated in it's innaugural season in the CAA. Ironically, ECU beat the RAMS in over-time- in Greenville. And we had one other loss- which I do not remember. That's it. Then the RAMS beat the Wainright coached UNCW Seahawks in a gruelling CAA tourney, and went on to nearly knock off Miss St in the big dance, again only losing by 1 at the buzzer.

So it was on;y 2 years later that Mac took over. Again- not a good team at all. But to say that the program was in complete wreckage, and that he turned it all around ir ridiculous. He had one good season- and that was his last. And honestly- that team, as good as it was, was still an under-performer, and existed the CA tourney way early. Mac was pathetic. Still is. I could go on and on.... but it's no use.

These are (mostly) my opinions, and if other want to disagree- that's fine. It's a message board, and a free country. But Toni- since you asked.... there it is. Multiply this post, and all its negativity by about 50- and there you have the real, brutal truth. That's why we feel the way we do.
 
RamBo said:
In fact, the last 2 teams Sonny had were not good. But Mac took over in what? 1998? Or after that seaosn. Well heck- the 96' VCU team nearly went undefeated in it's innaugural season in the CAA. Ironically, ECU beat the RAMS in over-time- in Greenville. And we had one other loss- which I do not remember. That's it. Then the RAMS beat the Wainright coached UNCW Seahawks in a gruelling CAA tourney, and went on to nearly knock off Miss St in the big dance, again only losing by 1 at the buzzer.

So it was on;y 2 years later that Mac took over. Again- not a good team at all. But to say that the program was in complete wreckage, and that he turned it all around ir ridiculous.
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I do not disagree with anything you said except for this part. While 2 years removed from the tournament, the program in 1996 was completely different than in 1998. Those 1996 guys were recruited for the Metro, NOT the CAA. Sonny Smith might have recruited alright in the Metro, but he had a hard problem when we were downgraded because the kind of recruits he was used to did not want to come here. 1998 was the year before the Siegel Center...what was anyone able to pitch to an incoming recruit in 1998? A mid-major conference, some success in the 1980s and a single year in the 90s, and a half-filled Coliseum? The program had the real potential for major death spiral when Mack came on the scene. Was he great? No, of course not. Was he an ass a lot of the time...no complaint here. But to say that the program was not in dire straights because we were 2 years removed from the tournament is not looking at the program from an aggregate perspective.
 
I don't disagree with what you've said here. And yes- the program was hurting. But what I am saying is that it's not like A Longwood (current) situation, or even a Radford type situation, where you come in, and you know it's going to be next to impossible to win. VCU was a mess at that time- you're right. But we had the Stu on the way. We had several young stud Richmonders that were most likely going to be VCU bound as long as someone didn't totally screw it up. Bo Jones and Lamar Taylor both had serious VCU ties, and both were headed to VCU all the way, if they could get it worked out. And Dom was being heavily recruited by a lot of schools, including Notre Dame (very hard), but he was also likely to stay at home with VCU.

Mac entered a somewhat difficult situation- there can be no doubt about that. All I am saying is that to say he single-handedly resurrected a failing / ruined program.... is simply not true. He did some good things. But the negativity and mediocrity he ended up displaying were far more overwhelming than those good things. VCU has had a winning tradition now in basketball for nearly 35 years. A couple of bad years do not mean a program is finished.
 
I've always been curious to know more about the behind-the-scenes workings of how Mac and Sonny came together, and what got Mac to leave a head coaching gig in order to be Sonny's associate, even if he knew it was only a short time until he'd get promoted. Always struck me as a bit too much Tennessee backwoods back scratching to me, but only based on appearances from the outside.

As for the condition of the program before Mac took the reins, I think it would be a mistake to look at the 1st CAA season in 96-96 as a proper yardstick, as it was an outlier for a non-Kendrick-having Sonny... being shoved into the CAA by UNCC and Tech while we still had some Metro talent (but only mediocre by Metro standards) probably prolonged Sonny's coaching career a few years, to VCU's detriment.
 
I totally agree. I'd love to have been able to understand better how in the world that whole Sonny/Mac thing developed. Man- that was the last thing Sonny did to stick us. And I also agree that the 96' team is certainly not a yard-stick to measure by. All I'm saying is that some people act like we had not won in 25 years, and that the program was on the verge of being shut down. On the contrary, not the case. We were just in the middle of a bad run, and yes- Mac had a tall order to get it rolling again. But the recruits we were after remembered VCU as a winner, and a "factor." Not simply the horrible teams we had those 2 years prior to Mac. Anyway, not worth arguing a lot ove. I think most of us agree on the basics.

It is my opinion that the guy is horrible. I am so glad we got rid of him, and moved on. Look how it turned out. And hopefully... getting even better.
 
vcu70 said:
VRam, you missed the whole joke because Senior Ram edited his original post where he used Stancil instead of Santil-lol
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No, I got it, but over the years I've seen Kenny's name spelled every way but the right way - Stancell. Just cleaning up the record. He's one of the best players in Ram history.
 
artRAMinMN said:
I've always been curious to know more about the behind-the-scenes workings of how Mac and Sonny came together, and what got Mac to leave a head coaching gig in order to be Sonny's associate, even if he knew it was only a short time until he'd get promoted. Always struck me as a bit too much Tennessee backwoods back scratching to me, but only based on appearances from the outside.
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In addition, "the coach in waiting" bullsh!t rarely works. Look at FSU and Bobby Bowden. Don't look for Jimbo Fisher to last long up there.
 
So I tried to post on their Rivals board to get some talk going on tomorrow's game, but no one seems to care about ECU basketball. They have their bowl game coming up, but even then. No basketball talk at all. I guess they just pretend it doesn't exist.
 
McCarthy was on ESPN950 this morning previewing the game. A few comments of note:

He referred to VCU as "one of the elite teams in the nation" and referenced VCU's home winning % as incredible, and noted Larry as a lottery pick. But we already knew all that :)

He took credit for getting the transformation of VCU going, saying that he got the momentum started up before Jeff and Anthony came in, etc.

He said that ECU's best matchup for them might be at the 4. They have a guy who will go up against TJ who is 6 foot 8/6 foot 9 with muscle. Could be a mismatch, to either team's advantage.

He talked about their pt guard and mentioned how he led the nation in assists last yr up until the final week and is among the nations leaders once again this year.

McCarthy said that his team is more balanced than a team reliant upon one go-to-guy. He said that they're close to having 5 guys averaging in double figures.
 
4RunningRam said:
McCarthy was on ESPN950 this morning previewing the game. A few comments of note:

He referred to VCU as "one of the elite teams in the nation" and referenced VCU's home winning % as incredible, and noted Larry as a lottery pick. But we already knew all that :)

He took credit for getting the transformation of VCU going, saying that he got the momentum started up before Jeff and Anthony came in, etc.

He said that ECU's best matchup for them might be at the 4. They have a guy who will go up against TJ who is 6 foot 8/6 foot 9 with muscle. Could be a mismatch, to either team's advantage.

He talked about their pt guard and mentioned how he led the nation in assists last yr up until the final week and is among the nations leaders once again this year.

McCarthy said that his team is more balanced than a team reliant upon one go-to-guy. He said that they're close to having 5 guys averaging in double figures.
I guess Mack did not do his research regarding the 4 spot for VCU. There's a guy named Jamie Skeen now eligible for VCU! :D He'll find out tomorrow night.
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I certainly hope Skeen shows up big tomorrow. He definitely showed the skills to be a very productive player for us given the minutes.
 
greg3434 said:
Any word on Big T's status? Is he back in good standing with Coach?
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I recall hearing that Terrance was to sit one game, so he should be available to play tonight.
 
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