Fixing our defense

Bluey said:
Yes, UM had a lot of talent, but so did we and that team played really well together for almost all of that season. I suspect the biggest issues were not fully being ready to play with the right mindset after our obliteration of Akron in the first round and the fact that is was pretty much a home game for Michigan. However, being unable to adjust our style of play early in the game, was the knockout punch.

As to the specific point here, the OP proposed resorting to a Havoc like approach to defense for this team and I was simply pointing out that playing a havoc style defense could certainly deliver worse results. First, the current team is not really constructed to play a Havoc style defense and frankly, and as well as that team played the system, Havoc could be dismantled pretty easily by experienced teams with strong guard play.
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The worst part was the home game aspect - given their seeding they never should've drawn Auburn Hills. Mitch McGary and Tim Hardaway Jr were the second worst part - we could have maybe dealt with Trey Burke and Sauce Castillo to some extent, but Hardaway was the jumbo deluxe version of multi talented wings like Halil Kanacevic that gave us fits, and we just didn't have any reasonable answer for McGary's passing and size at power forward. I forgot Caris LeVert was on that team, too. In retrospect they were absolutely loaded.

We did get Teddy Okereafor's Jedi mind trick defense of a 3 on 1 break, though, so it wasn't all bad (just 99%)
 
mrgeode said:
The worst part was the home game aspect - given their seeding they never should've drawn Auburn Hills. Mitch McGary and Tim Hardaway Jr were the second worst part - we could have maybe dealt with Trey Burke and Sauce Castillo to some extent, but Hardaway was the jumbo deluxe version of multi talented wings like Halil Kanacevic that gave us fits, and we just didn't have any reasonable answer for McGary's passing and size at power forward. I forgot Caris LeVert was on that team, too. In retrospect they were absolutely loaded.

We did get Teddy Okereafor's Jedi mind trick defense of a 3 on 1 break, though, so it wasn't all bad (just 99%)
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Indeed that was a loaded team and they proved it by going to the final. Technically, they are the only tourney team that did not “officially” lose a game, despite not being national champs. They were good, but we were really, really bad that game—it was the worst game I ever saw involving VCU since 1983 until the Dayton Massacre and then closely followed by the Bona Beat Down (worst half ever!).
 
Bluey said:
Yes, UM had a lot of talent, but so did we and that team played really well together for almost all of that season. I suspect the biggest issues were not fully being ready to play with the right mindset after our obliteration of Akron in the first round and the fact that is was pretty much a home game for Michigan. However, being unable to adjust our style of play early in the game, was the knockout punch.

As to the specific point here, the OP proposed resorting to a Havoc like approach to defense for this team and I was simply pointing out that playing a havoc style defense could certainly deliver worse results. First, the current team is not really constructed to play a Havoc style defense and frankly, and as well as that team played the system, Havoc could be dismantled pretty easily by experienced teams with strong guard play.
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Definitely agree that switching to a Havoc approach now would not be a good idea. As one of my favorite songs says, "This is not a thing to learn inside a day." (Dougie McClean, Sythe Song) Anyway, do what we're doing now a little better and a little better.
 
Bluey said:
Indeed that was a loaded team and they proved it by going to the final. Technically, they are the only tourney team that did not “officially” lose a game, despite not being national champs. They were good, but we were really, really bad that game—it was the worst game I ever saw involving VCU since 1983 until the Dayton Massacre and then closely followed by the Bona Beat Down (worst half ever!).
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Definitely reacted terribly to getting hit with some haymakers early.
 
mrgeode said:
The worst part was the home game aspect - given their seeding they never should've drawn Auburn Hills. Mitch McGary and Tim Hardaway Jr were the second worst part - we could have maybe dealt with Trey Burke and Sauce Castillo to some extent, but Hardaway was the jumbo deluxe version of multi talented wings like Halil Kanacevic that gave us fits, and we just didn't have any reasonable answer for McGary's passing and size at power forward. I forgot Caris LeVert was on that team, too. In retrospect they were absolutely loaded.

We did get Teddy Okereafor's Jedi mind trick defense of a 3 on 1 break, though, so it wasn't all bad (just 99%)
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We also had a horrendous shooting game, not much caused by the defense either, sometimes the ball just doesn't go in.
 
Ramlove81 said:
We also had a horrendous shooting game, not much caused by the defense either, sometimes the ball just doesn't go in.
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The whole thing was pretty much a cascading failure.

Our current defense is NOT a cascading failure.
 
Mistachill said:
If you remember, when Havoc didn't work (we seem to romanticize it as if it was failproof) it led to a lot of easy baskets. And it wasn't just nationally ranked teams that cracked the code. It was usually teams with strong guard play. So yeah, it can be a lot worse if you haven't practiced it and aren't conditioned to play it full time. When Havoc didn't work, guards used to eat us up breaking the press.

I don't think the answer is just throw everything out the window and try something completely different in the middle of the season. Maybe you do that if we were like Penn State and winless in the conference. Our best bet is to just do what we're doing but do it much better. If anything, we may want to mix in some zone, but even doing that requires even more focus from our players, which I think their biggest weakness defensively. They have proven they can play solid defense when focused.
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Got some tighter pressure tonight both half and full-court. More aggressive. Still not great, but slowed the ticks some...
 
One thing I noticed in all of the Mooney interviews postgame was his comments about how VCU switches from 1 thru 5 and how they needed to take advantage of the switches immediately. Mismatches occur which is causes problems.
 
AlienAiden said:
One thing I noticed in all of the Mooney interviews postgame was his comments about how VCU switches from 1 thru 5 and how they needed to take advantage of the switches immediately. Mismatches occur which is causes problems.
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interesting - NBA analytics folks definitely track how well opponents defend the pick and Roll (PNR) to identify who they want to attack when they run the PNR

wonder if VCU analyzes which of their players are weakest in the PNR on defense and perhaps should be considering not switching with that guy but use another approach with that weaker defender -

I think all of us have seen a few too many instances where Brandon or Hill are trying to guard a big on the block after PNR (w/o the cavalry coming from weakside to help).

easy to say (I know ) but not always easy to execute

I am guessing Bryant could do it because of their size and athleticism vs conference foes whereas the a-10 has far more talent night in and night out than Bryant played. (sort of like Shaka could defend one way in CAA but not the same way at Texas or Marquette because the opponent's talent could adapt better and make them pay)

thanks for sharing what the Moon-man said!
 
VCU Finance 2008 said:
People also forget that while Coach Smart did mention a full court press and used the word HAVOC in his introductory press conference we didn't really get good at it until Briante showed up 2 years later. You have to have the personnel for it and that takes time.
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You just made me remember the first time I watched Bri on the floor, truly something boundless I never, ever, expected to see on a basketball court…his energy, effort, playfulness and brashness all integrated into a floor demon. We were spoiled to experience something truly unique, special and good with Bri and don’t get me started on Treveon.
 
Bluey said:
You just made me remember the first time I watched Bri on the floor, truly something boundless I never, ever, expected to see on a basketball court…his energy, effort, playfulness and brashness all integrated into a floor demon. We were spoiled to experience something truly unique, special and good with Bri and don’t get me started on Treveon.
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We would be lucky if we even had one player the caliber of those two play four years at VCU ever again. Highly unlikely that we will ever see two players with their talent play together for 4 years but it was awesome while it lasted! Also crazy how lightly recruited they were and that they committed before the Final Four run.
 
Switching into mismatches is definitely 1 of our biggest problems on defense and Lazar is as more to blame than anyone else. He should slip the pick at least half the times he switches from what I am seeing.

Also, it’s tough to improve on defense when your best on offense are your worst on defense. Hill is an elite NBA level passer and shooter, but his defense is a major liability, even at A 10 level. I hope these guys can become complete players. There is a reason why Nowell’s and Belle’s minutes have picked up.
 
RamDanFan said:
Switching into mismatches is definitely 1 of our biggest problems on defense and Lazar is as more to blame than anyone else. ......
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OF the 6 commonly accepted ways to guard the screen, players don't usually make that decision. Coaches generally decide how to play it based on both teams players in a given game. Of the 6 most commonly accepted ways, we play the most basic vanilla version, the switch Why the staff choose this every game is a really good question especially since we are just recently almost figured out the weak side rotation to help in the lane.

I digress but what I am saying is Lazar is not making the decision he is just following the game plan 🤷‍♂️
 
TampaKAP said:
OF the 6 commonly accepted ways to guard the screen, players don't usually make that decision. Coaches generally decide how to play it based on both teams players in a given game. Of the 6 most commonly accepted ways, we play the most basic vanilla version, the switch Why the staff choose this every game is a really good question especially since we are just recently almost figured out the weak side rotation to help in the lane.

I digress but what I am saying is Lazar is not making the decision he is just following the game plan 🤷‍♂️
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Martelli on his post game radio comments said something to the effect that he has read that he is the worst defensive coach in VCU history…
 
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