Thank you Zeb Jackson, one HECK of a RAM

Mistachill said:
What is your definition of an "experienced" point guard? For a little perspective, in his freshman season Maynor averaged only 3 minutes more per game than Brandon Jennings. In fact, Jennings played 457 total minutes compared to Maynor's 455 minutes. Not to mention, Jennings has experience winning a conference title and going to the NCAAs, something Maynor didn't experience as a freshman.

Considering he became 1st team all-conference as a sophomore and had heroic performances in the conference tournament and in the NCAAs, I kinda think it worked out when we went into the 2006-07 season with an "inexperienced" pg and a new coach.

Would I like to have a perfect team with zero voids or question marks? Sure. Yeah, having an experienced point guard as insurance would be great. Am I going to lose any sleep over not having one? Nope, because (at least on paper) we have considerable talent and multiple options at just about all positions.

Regarding Zeb, I viewed him as more of a back up ball handler than a back up point guard. To me, the only true playmaker on last year's squad was Max. Just because you bring the ball up court doesn't make you a point guard, particularly in this age of position less basketball.
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Any example you give prior to the current NIL portal era (2023 and after) is not applicable.



Applies and Oranges


If Maynor had been a freshman last year with type of 1st year..he'd most likely be in portal 2 month ago.

Last year, VCU was an exception to the rule.

It's extremely rare to keep a trio of guards/wings together(Shulga, Jackson, Bamsile) with that amount of experience together with multiple years of heavy game time experience.

Then VCU able to add another experienced point guard (Russell - 4 years and 1300+ carreer points at the start of '24).

Mind you, with the exception of Bamisile, all of them logged major minutes of shared responsibity running the course of the 2 years.


Russell came in having extensive experience not only running the offense on multiple D1 teams but also a proven track record of taking over games and winning games at D1 level.

As a result, he was s plug and play addition, 100% healthy, mature, understanding Odom's expectation, able to hit the ground running and make an immediate impact with very some but not an inordinate mount adjustment to offensive efficiency.

We are going from all the above to a situation where none of holder overs or additions at the PG position have logged starter minutes at the D1 level for ANY teams...let alone this new system.

We're talking about the PG position. The QB of the offense and position that is the extension of HC..who's knows the system and communicates the coach's expectations to other players on the floor during game play.

We have Jennings - a rotational guy who played 13 minutes a game on a specific situational basis. Nowell - a guy who played 6.5 mpg game coming off a shoulder injury and hasn't played since January and Lewis a true freshman.

Even with an experienced PG addition with a proven track record(starter minutes over entire course of last season averaging 10+ ppg and 4+ apg), he would still have to adjust to new coach, New system, New players.

VCU complicated its PG situation..all the above challenges that come with experience PG + none of these guys experienced the rigors of starter minutes at the D1 level(game conditioning), limited experience handling close game situations at the D1 level winning games, some challenges overcoming injuries getting in game shape.

Now you schedule a H and H with NC State..you going up against Quadir Copeland...a guard who logging heavy starter minutes at the D1 level, already knows his coach's system, fully healthy and led a team to the NCAA...VCU has basically constructed a PG situation with the weakest possible position to win that game and the MTE because the experience isn't there.

The Q1 opportunities should not be used as PG developmental "on the job" training opportunites for inexperienced PG's.
They'll learn and getter over the course of a season but at the expense of possibly losing Q1 games needed for an at large and its a one year window.

If Nowell, Jenning or Lewis learn from their mistakes, master the offensive scheme and VCU experience the desired results by the end of tbe season then VCU probably won't reap the rewards in 26-27.

One or more of them will be in the portal( Jennings was just there).

To win NOW and get to the big dance next march..we need an experienced starting PG...there is no room for development..only plug and play.


Remember when you said "I don't care how the sausage is made..just get to the NCAA"...this way of making sausage isn't going to get you there.
 
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duncanlamb said:
Now you schedule a H and H with NC State..you going up against Quadir Copeland...a guard who logging heavy starter minutes at the D1 level, already knows his coach's system, fully healthy and led a team to the NCAA...VCU has basically constructed a PG situation with the weakest possible position to win that game and the MTE because the experience isn't there.
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You are right, everyone can see now what a bad idea it was to schedule a H&H with NC State. C'mon man, we all know you're just jealous because Wade will never schedule Mason.

Know why? Mason Sucks.
 
duncanlamb said:
Any example you give prior to the current NIL portal era (2023 and after) is not applicable.



Applies and Oranges


If Maynor had been a freshman last year with type of 1st year..he'd most likely be in portal 2 month ago.

Last year, VCU was an exception to the rule.

It's extremely rare to keep a trio of guards/wings together(Shulga, Jackson, Bamsile) with that amount of experience together with multiple years of heavy game time experience.

Then VCU able to add another experienced point guard (Russell - 4 years and 1300+ carreer points at the start of '24).

Mind you, with the exception of Bamisile, all of them logged major minutes of shared responsibity running the course of the 2 years.


Russell came in having extensive experience not only running the offense on multiple D1 teams but also a proven track record of taking over games and winning games at D1 level.

As a result, he was s plug and play addition, 100% healthy, mature, understanding Odom's expectation, able to hit the ground running and make an immediate impact with very some but not an inordinate mount adjustment to offensive efficiency.

We are going from all the above to a situation where none of holder overs or additions at the PG position have logged starter minutes at the D1 level for ANY teams...let alone this new system.

We're talking about the PG position. The QB of the offense and position that is the extension of HC..who's knows the system and communicates the coach's expectations to other players on the floor during game play.

We have Jennings - a rotational guy who played 13 minutes a game on a specific situational basis. Nowell - a guy who played 6.5 mpg game coming off a shoulder injury and hasn't played since January and Lewis a true freshman.

Even with an experienced PG addition with a proven track record(starter minutes over entire course of last season averaging 10+ ppg and 4+ apg), he would still have to adjust to new coach, New system, New players.

VCU complicated its PG situation..all the above challenges that come with experience PG + none of these guys experienced the rigors of starter minutes at the D1 level(game conditioning), limited experience handling close game situations at the D1 level winning games, some challenges overcoming injuries getting in game shape.

Now you schedule a H and H with NC State..you going up against Quadir Copeland...a guard who logging heavy starter minutes at the D1 level, already knows his coach's system, fully healthy and led a team to the NCAA...VCU has basically constructed a PG situation with the weakest possible position to win that game and the MTE because the experience isn't there.

The Q1 opportunities should not be used as PG developmental "on the job" training opportunites for inexperienced PG's.
They'll learn and getter over the course of a season but at the expense of possibly losing Q1 games needed for an at large and its a one year window.

If Nowell, Jenning or Lewis learn from their mistakes, master the offensive scheme and VCU experience the desired results by the end of tbe season then VCU probably won't reap the rewards in 26-27.

One or more of them will be in the portal( Jennings was just there).

To win NOW and get to the big dance next march..we need an experienced starting PG...there is no room for development..only plug and play.


Remember when you said "I don't care how the sausage is made..just get to the NCAA"...this way of making sausage isn't going to get you there.
Click to expand...
Here is the reader’s digest version of the above post

“I am a idiot and don’t know crap about college basketball “
 
GarseIronjade said:
You are right, everyone can see now what a bad idea it was to schedule a H&H with NC State. C'mon man, we all know you're just jealous because Wade will never schedule Mason.

Know why? Mason Sucks.
Click to expand...
It's bad if you plan on winning a Q1 game..remember this is top 30 program.. no such thing as moral "Q1" losses.

It all starts with the PG...

Quadir Copeland has immense advantage in every aspect of the game (save may be 3 pt shooting) over any PG on our roster.

The fact he's coming into this game with a year under his belt in Wade's system and run the offense at a high level to lead his team to the NCAA and win a game against a P4 team like clemson puts him several level ahead of anyone of VCU's stable of PG's. That's on top of all the experience at Syracuse where he won clutch game winner in ACC conference play.

There's no one on this roster right now that even start 25+ minutes at the PG position and won a D1 game in the last season..let alone started a full season..

There's still several thousand prospects in the portal...my hope is VCU picks up an experienced starting PG 1otherwise tbe rams will have tough sledding at NC State and at the MTE during the OOC portion of the schedule.
 
duncanlamb said:
It's bad if you plan on winning a Q1 game..remember this is top 30 program.. no such thing as moral "Q1" losses.

It all starts with the PG...

Quadir Copeland has immense advantage in every aspect of the game (save may be 3 pt shooting) over any PG on our roster.

The fact he's coming into this game with a year under his belt in Wade's system and run the offense at a high level to lead his team to the NCAA and win a game against a P4 team like clemson puts him several level ahead of anyone of VCU's stable of PG's. That's on top of all the experience at Syracuse where he won clutch game winner in ACC conference play.

There's no one on this roster right now that even start 25+ minutes at the PG position and won a D1 game in the last season..let alone started a full season..

There's still several thousand prospects in the portal...my hope is VCU picks up an experienced starting PG 1otherwise tbe rams will have tough sledding at NC State and at the MTE during the OOC portion of the schedule.
Click to expand...
I am going to regret engaging and let me make it clear I am not here to try and change your opinion but I disagree with your premeise that VCU looses at NC State or the in Atlantis because we don't have a senior PG. 3 of the top 10 Kenpom teams and 2 of teh final 4 teams ran freshman PG's for more than 65% of the minutes played. In PM Jr system as described by him its more reaction than a PG pounding the ball at the top to set a play and then distribute. Last year at Bryant his PG who was good by the way was 4th in Asst Rate. One has to consider style of play and not make basketball generalizations.
 
duncanlamb said:
Any example you give prior to the current NIL portal era (2023 and after) is not applicable.



Applies and Oranges


If Maynor had been a freshman last year with type of 1st year..he'd most likely be in portal 2 month ago.

Last year, VCU was an exception to the rule.

It's extremely rare to keep a trio of guards/wings together(Shulga, Jackson, Bamsile) with that amount of experience together with multiple years of heavy game time experience.

Then VCU able to add another experienced point guard (Russell - 4 years and 1300+ carreer points at the start of '24).

Mind you, with the exception of Bamisile, all of them logged major minutes of shared responsibity running the course of the 2 years.


Russell came in having extensive experience not only running the offense on multiple D1 teams but also a proven track record of taking over games and winning games at D1 level.

As a result, he was s plug and play addition, 100% healthy, mature, understanding Odom's expectation, able to hit the ground running and make an immediate impact with very some but not an inordinate mount adjustment to offensive efficiency.

We are going from all the above to a situation where none of holder overs or additions at the PG position have logged starter minutes at the D1 level for ANY teams...let alone this new system.

We're talking about the PG position. The QB of the offense and position that is the extension of HC..who's knows the system and communicates the coach's expectations to other players on the floor during game play.

We have Jennings - a rotational guy who played 13 minutes a game on a specific situational basis. Nowell - a guy who played 6.5 mpg game coming off a shoulder injury and hasn't played since January and Lewis a true freshman.

Even with an experienced PG addition with a proven track record(starter minutes over entire course of last season averaging 10+ ppg and 4+ apg), he would still have to adjust to new coach, New system, New players.

VCU complicated its PG situation..all the above challenges that come with experience PG + none of these guys experienced the rigors of starter minutes at the D1 level(game conditioning), limited experience handling close game situations at the D1 level winning games, some challenges overcoming injuries getting in game shape.

Now you schedule a H and H with NC State..you going up against Quadir Copeland...a guard who logging heavy starter minutes at the D1 level, already knows his coach's system, fully healthy and led a team to the NCAA...VCU has basically constructed a PG situation with the weakest possible position to win that game and the MTE because the experience isn't there.

The Q1 opportunities should not be used as PG developmental "on the job" training opportunites for inexperienced PG's.
They'll learn and getter over the course of a season but at the expense of possibly losing Q1 games needed for an at large and its a one year window.

If Nowell, Jenning or Lewis learn from their mistakes, master the offensive scheme and VCU experience the desired results by the end of tbe season then VCU probably won't reap the rewards in 26-27.

One or more of them will be in the portal( Jennings was just there).

To win NOW and get to the big dance next march..we need an experienced starting PG...there is no room for development..only plug and play.


Remember when you said "I don't care how the sausage is made..just get to the NCAA"...this way of making sausage isn't going to get you there.
Click to expand...
It's funny how anything prior to 2023 doesn't apply, yet you reference the pg being the "quarterback of the offense" which is a very pre-millennium way of viewing how the position is being played in today's game.

So the fact that we danced with a freshman point guard in 2021 is also apple to oranges and irrelevant? BTW, didn't Illinois, Oklahoma and Auburn dance this season with freshman point guards. Also, Baylor had two freshmen starting in their backcourt and they danced. BYU's point guard was a freshman.

Your problem is you have it burned into your brain that there's a singular way to construct a team and there's a singular way to play the point and any deviation from that is doomed for failure. I know you have a man crush on Joey and think every point guard we ever sign needs to be a Joey-clone. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There's more than one way to play the position and have success. We'll likely be fine. Relax.
 
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duncanlamb said:
Yes.

I rebooted. I'm fine now.
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Whew! Glad to hear it, you had us worried there DL.

Now understand, I don't speak for everyone (who does here?), but I appreciate you DL, really I do. It's just that EVERYONE (and I will speak for everyone on this one) knows you think we still need an experienced lead guard next year.

We know you're very concerned about this.

At last count you've said it 37,348 times in 27 different threads (0nly a slight exaggeration). You don't have to keep repeating it.

That's all we're asking. Well, it's all I'm asking. As I said, I don't speak for everyone here.
 
Ramlove81 said:
Whew! Glad to hear it, you had us worried there DL.

Now understand, I don't speak for everyone (who does here?), but I appreciate you DL, really I do. It's just that EVERYONE (and I will speak for everyone on this one) knows you think we still need an experienced lead guard next year.

We know you're very concerned about this.

At last count you've said it 37,348 times in 27 different threads (0nly a slight exaggeration). You don't have to keep repeating it.

That's all we're asking. Well, it's all I'm asking. As I said, I don't speak for everyone here.
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I know I've gone overboard...very bad habit....I'm out of the gm's office until November..talk to everyone around veteran's day.
 
duncanlamb said:
I know I've gone overboard...very bad habit....I'm out of the gm's office until November..talk to everyone around veteran's day.
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I know, the off season can be very strange indeed around here. Personally, I already can't wait for the season to start.
 
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