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The Best of the Rest
- Thread starter vcu_dan
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districtballer
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Nice find Dan, I'll post this to the Report. You'll get credit for the find of course. 
It's nice to see that we're not missing a beat with recruiting. 2011 is almost done and we haven't missed a beat with Kasey Wilson (91) and Pierria' Henry (90) having committed already and hopefully 2 more guards to come in the next couple of weeks. Props to Shaka and the staff for getting it done. They say recruiting is the life-blood of any program, and he certainly seems to be doing a fantastic job at that.
It's nice to see that we're not missing a beat with recruiting. 2011 is almost done and we haven't missed a beat with Kasey Wilson (91) and Pierria' Henry (90) having committed already and hopefully 2 more guards to come in the next couple of weeks. Props to Shaka and the staff for getting it done. They say recruiting is the life-blood of any program, and he certainly seems to be doing a fantastic job at that.
districtballer
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Not often that mid-majors get publicity in bb recruiting, especially without a 4 or 5 star recruit, but I'm happy they acknowledge what we know: incoming class talent and position breadth is outstanding!
They mentioned the two east coast higher-star rated players, which is great...but I cant' wait for Neal to lace'em up. Get the ball in the paint...take it to the rack...don't fade away! Just what we need.
districtballer
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RamJamFan said:
I think you mean Veal?
But you're right, for all the bally-hooing about recruits (which I have heavily contributed to), it is Toby who is going to be the guy who makes the most immediate impact for us. I think you'll like what you see from him. He's a super athlete and leaves it all on the floor.
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All you need to know about these "rankings" is that the class of Ben Finney, Frank Hassell, Gerald Lee and Keyon Carter (Lee didn't redshirt but they all came in at the same time) had one guy ranked in the 80's (Finney) and the rest were 40's. They didn't get an inch of press or coverage and when Finney and company graduate this coming year, they have the chance to be the winningest class of players ODU has ever had.
With that said, congrats on the rankings because any press is good press, even if it is meaningless sometimes (just look at GMU's touted freshman class from last year that is dropping like flies).
With that said, congrats on the rankings because any press is good press, even if it is meaningless sometimes (just look at GMU's touted freshman class from last year that is dropping like flies).
districtballer
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This is more about getting nice press than anything else. Any ESPN mentions are welcome. Recruiting is hit-or-miss but we have had some highly-touted guys pan out very nicely for us like Joey Rodriguez and Brad Burgess most recently and obviously some of our lesser touted guys are in/going to the NBA in Larry and Eric. Our recruiting has been pretty darn good. There aren't many BCS team that can boast consecutive first-round NBA draft picks. It's all about what your metrics for success are. If you ask a high school recruit and ask them who has been most successful recruiting out of the CAA schools, us having two consecutive NBA first-rounders will always push us over the top, regardless of whether the perception is right or wrong.
Taylor has a good system, but let's not forget you guys were in the CBI and CIT the 2 years before this. One downside to his style is a lot of times you have to build up guys with a lower skill level but who have the potential to grow into great players. ie. Hassell was as a raw as sushi coming in and Bazemore couldn't dribble the ball without having it go off his foot. It took time, but once they grew and got through ODU's redshirt heavy program (which allowed them more experience and time to bulk up) you had a heck of a team this year that ended up winning a NCAA tournament game. Now if Taylor can parlay that success into getting players that can play earlier, you may not have to worry about up and down cycles like the last 4 years for ODU (NCAA at-large, CBI, CIT, NCAA automatic). That is very possible since ODU is probably more appealing than ever after winning the NCAA game. It's up to Blaine to capitalize on it. For example, after next year, you graduate most of your impact players (Finney, James, Hassell, Carter) and you'll be young. If you can get college-ready prospects that can contribute early, you might not miss a beat. The way Taylor recruits though, you'll probably take a step back. ODU will never fall far back since the CAA sucks in general and you should always be a top 4 program, but you won't be really at the top either.
That's not really much different than VCU or Mason etc. since they have up and down cycles as well. Getting highly-touted guys that scouts and coaches think are really good never hurts though. There are just too many metrics that you can't really evaluate until the player hits the floor (ie. how the player meshes with teammates, acclimating to the speed and strength of D1 athletes, homesickness etc.). Mason's class is the poster-child for how little rankings mean. They had the top non-BCS class last year and their lowest ranked recruit (literally) was their best player. They had like a 6 or 7 member class. While they are all freshmen and a number of them could really be great/good players. Mason has arguably had the top recruiting on paper in the conference and done nothing with it. Absolutely nothing. Their lone NCAA appearance after '06 was only because ODU/VCU got knocked off and they were in (by far) the easier bracket going against an exhausted Tribe team playing their 4th game in as many days. They then proceeded to get blown out by a ridiculous margin on national television while the team that won the regular season by 3 games (that would be us) was relegated to the NIT. I don't know any team that has done less with the amount of advantages they have recruiting with a Final Four.
Our guys are pretty highly-touted, but as I said before, the odds are that 1-2 of them could be all-conference players, 1-2 maybe good role players, and 1 will probably never make an impact or transfer for more playing time. This is the way recruiting usually goes. The rankings are just nice for off-season banter and energizing a fanbase.
Recruiting is hit-or-miss but we have had some highly-touted guys pan out very nicely for us like Joey Rodriguez and Brad Burgess most recently and obviously some of our lesser touted guys are in/going to the NBA in Larry and Eric. Our recruiting has been pretty darn good. There aren't many BCS team that can boast consecutive first-round NBA draft picks. It's all about what your metrics for success are. If you ask a high school recruit and ask them who has been most successful recruiting out of the CAA schools, us having two consecutive NBA first-rounders will always push us over the top, regardless of whether the perception is right or wrong. Taylor has a good system, but let's not forget you guys were in the CBI and CIT the 2 years before this. One downside to his style is a lot of times you have to build up guys with a lower skill level but who have the potential to grow into great players. ie. Hassell was as a raw as sushi coming in and Bazemore couldn't dribble the ball without having it go off his foot. It took time, but once they grew and got through ODU's redshirt heavy program (which allowed them more experience and time to bulk up) you had a heck of a team this year that ended up winning a NCAA tournament game. Now if Taylor can parlay that success into getting players that can play earlier, you may not have to worry about up and down cycles like the last 4 years for ODU (NCAA at-large, CBI, CIT, NCAA automatic). That is very possible since ODU is probably more appealing than ever after winning the NCAA game. It's up to Blaine to capitalize on it. For example, after next year, you graduate most of your impact players (Finney, James, Hassell, Carter) and you'll be young. If you can get college-ready prospects that can contribute early, you might not miss a beat. The way Taylor recruits though, you'll probably take a step back. ODU will never fall far back since the CAA sucks in general and you should always be a top 4 program, but you won't be really at the top either.
That's not really much different than VCU or Mason etc. since they have up and down cycles as well. Getting highly-touted guys that scouts and coaches think are really good never hurts though. There are just too many metrics that you can't really evaluate until the player hits the floor (ie. how the player meshes with teammates, acclimating to the speed and strength of D1 athletes, homesickness etc.). Mason's class is the poster-child for how little rankings mean. They had the top non-BCS class last year and their lowest ranked recruit (literally) was their best player. They had like a 6 or 7 member class. While they are all freshmen and a number of them could really be great/good players. Mason has arguably had the top recruiting on paper in the conference and done nothing with it. Absolutely nothing. Their lone NCAA appearance after '06 was only because ODU/VCU got knocked off and they were in (by far) the easier bracket going against an exhausted Tribe team playing their 4th game in as many days. They then proceeded to get blown out by a ridiculous margin on national television while the team that won the regular season by 3 games (that would be us) was relegated to the NIT. I don't know any team that has done less with the amount of advantages they have recruiting with a Final Four.
Our guys are pretty highly-touted, but as I said before, the odds are that 1-2 of them could be all-conference players, 1-2 maybe good role players, and 1 will probably never make an impact or transfer for more playing time. This is the way recruiting usually goes. The rankings are just nice for off-season banter and energizing a fanbase.
I don't really post over here anymore because too many people are thin-skinned and have a hard time handling objective assessments of situations, but sometimes you just can't avoid the temptation to keep people honest when the rhetoric gets fast and furious.
With regard to the recent exchange between Razor and DB, there seems to be a fair amount of revisionist history/inaccurate analysis concerning the upper echelon of CAA basketball and the relative success of its top three programs since 2006. While this is somewhat understandable, considering that they each have their own agendas as representatives of the interests of ODU and VCU, respectively, I have a few questions about their posts.
* Razor, you claim that Mason's "touted freshman class from last year is dropping like flies." While I know you enjoy mocking Mason's players to cover your inferiority complex about Blaine's mediocre recruiting, your statement is factually inaccurate. Other than the loss of Kevin Foster, who as a redshirt freshman wasn't even technically part of the 2009 class that was named by ESPN as the top non-BCS class in the country, it looks like everyone from that class is still on the Mason roster. How is that "dropping like flies?"
* DB, please explain how Mason's "class is the poster child for how little rankings mean." GMU's last two highly touted recruiting classes have completed two years and one year of college eligibility, respectively. Isn't it still a little early to judge them as busts, considering very few mid-major level players are ready to make significant impact as freshmen? Since you're one of the most knowledgable posters on this board, I wonder if you'll judge VCU's incoming freshmen on a similarly harsh curve after their first season of Division I college basketball.
* My previous point also dovetails nicely with the following question: DB, how can you claim that Mason has done absolutely nothing with its recruiting since the Final Four? Again, isn't it really still too early to make such a sweeping claim with any sort of credibility? They've really only had two highly touted classes since 2006 (unless you include the '10 class with Arledge and Allen), and yet they reached the CAA tournament final three consecutive years -- losing twice largely to one of the best players in the history of the conference. Doesn't seem like much to be ashamed of, if you ask me.
Oh, and remind me again: how many NCAA tournament games did VCU win with a roster that included TWO NBA first-round draft picks? Zero. Huh?
ODU and VCU each have just ONE more NCAA tournament appearance than Mason (and one more NCAA tournament victory than everyone else in the CAA, for that matter) since the Final Four season of 2006. So please stop acting like ODU and VCU are just leaving everyone else in the dust when it comes to men's basketball; it simply makes both of you look like amateur spinmasters instead of informed representatives of two fine universities.
With regard to the recent exchange between Razor and DB, there seems to be a fair amount of revisionist history/inaccurate analysis concerning the upper echelon of CAA basketball and the relative success of its top three programs since 2006. While this is somewhat understandable, considering that they each have their own agendas as representatives of the interests of ODU and VCU, respectively, I have a few questions about their posts.
* Razor, you claim that Mason's "touted freshman class from last year is dropping like flies." While I know you enjoy mocking Mason's players to cover your inferiority complex about Blaine's mediocre recruiting, your statement is factually inaccurate. Other than the loss of Kevin Foster, who as a redshirt freshman wasn't even technically part of the 2009 class that was named by ESPN as the top non-BCS class in the country, it looks like everyone from that class is still on the Mason roster. How is that "dropping like flies?"
* DB, please explain how Mason's "class is the poster child for how little rankings mean." GMU's last two highly touted recruiting classes have completed two years and one year of college eligibility, respectively. Isn't it still a little early to judge them as busts, considering very few mid-major level players are ready to make significant impact as freshmen? Since you're one of the most knowledgable posters on this board, I wonder if you'll judge VCU's incoming freshmen on a similarly harsh curve after their first season of Division I college basketball.
* My previous point also dovetails nicely with the following question: DB, how can you claim that Mason has done absolutely nothing with its recruiting since the Final Four? Again, isn't it really still too early to make such a sweeping claim with any sort of credibility? They've really only had two highly touted classes since 2006 (unless you include the '10 class with Arledge and Allen), and yet they reached the CAA tournament final three consecutive years -- losing twice largely to one of the best players in the history of the conference. Doesn't seem like much to be ashamed of, if you ask me.
Oh, and remind me again: how many NCAA tournament games did VCU win with a roster that included TWO NBA first-round draft picks? Zero. Huh?
ODU and VCU each have just ONE more NCAA tournament appearance than Mason (and one more NCAA tournament victory than everyone else in the CAA, for that matter) since the Final Four season of 2006. So please stop acting like ODU and VCU are just leaving everyone else in the dust when it comes to men's basketball; it simply makes both of you look like amateur spinmasters instead of informed representatives of two fine universities.
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Oh brother, this is the kind of inflated hyperbole you can read in that ghost town of a message board called CAAZone. Up till this point this was a decent enough discussion about recruiting.
AG, you're the one with the "thin skin" and nothing you say "dovetails nicely" with anything but the grandiose assessment some posters have of the GMU program. So why don't you take it over there where you will find a willing ear.
AG, you're the one with the "thin skin" and nothing you say "dovetails nicely" with anything but the grandiose assessment some posters have of the GMU program. So why don't you take it over there where you will find a willing ear.
districtballer
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I knew there were more Mason fans lurking on here. That's cool.
It's true. What has Mason done? Other than 2008, which you got incredibly lucky playing the Tribe who knocked off the favorites and only embarrassed yourselves in the tournament. I include 2007, 2008, and 2009's classes. That's almost a full cycle of recruiting. You went to a Final Four. This isn't like winning the CAA a couple of years. It's the FINAL FOUR. If you don't think you should be blowing everyone away recruiting-wise, then I feel bad for you as a Mason fan. Andre Cornelius was billed as a top flight high major steal. What has he done in the CAA (a much lower league considering offers from Tennessee, South Carolina, Clemson, and so many big-time schools)? How about Cam Long, the supposed answer to Eric Maynor who had an even more disappointing season than Larry Sanders (and that's saying a lot)? You had the top recruiting class period among non-BCS schools, including a guy that was a 4-star recruit his fall senior year and not one of them was an impact player? This is not the ACC. We're talking about the CAA here. That's not spin. That's the truth.
I already told you what I think of VCU's incoming class: 1-2 will be all-conference, 1-2 may be decent role players, and probably 1 won't make any impact or transfer. I don't think that's unfair at all. I don't boast about how VCU's classes are going to run the CAA for the next 3 years and how we'll be the team to beat like some of your fans do. I get excited about the players we bring in and try to energize our fanbase as well. Nothing more, nothing less. A large number of fans from Mason would likely agree with me. You have a bunch of whining, self-entitled players there who's heads have been blown up by people telling them they are awesome when they haven't done anything. Guys like Ryan Pearson, Mike Morrison, Andre Cornelius, and Cam Long have shown themselves to be nothing but big-talking, self-entitled arrogant individuals. Your coaches have sacrificed talent for character and that's why you have the worst reputation among CAA schools right now after just one season. That's not something to be proud of. That's not spin; that's 100% truth. Pearson can play, but anyone who saw him at the Marriott and his actions after the CAA tournament would be ashamed to have a kid like that in their program.
That's what I said. I challenge you to point anything out in there that's spin. I already even said that several of your players may turn out to be good, even great players. If you don't think your program has been disappointing given all the advantages you should have going to the national semifinals in all of college basketball, I don't know what to tell you.
You come here posing as a VCU fan and cry foul when we post our opinions about your program and we're supposed to have thin skin?
It's true. What has Mason done? Other than 2008, which you got incredibly lucky playing the Tribe who knocked off the favorites and only embarrassed yourselves in the tournament. I include 2007, 2008, and 2009's classes. That's almost a full cycle of recruiting. You went to a Final Four. This isn't like winning the CAA a couple of years. It's the FINAL FOUR. If you don't think you should be blowing everyone away recruiting-wise, then I feel bad for you as a Mason fan. Andre Cornelius was billed as a top flight high major steal. What has he done in the CAA (a much lower league considering offers from Tennessee, South Carolina, Clemson, and so many big-time schools)? How about Cam Long, the supposed answer to Eric Maynor who had an even more disappointing season than Larry Sanders (and that's saying a lot)? You had the top recruiting class period among non-BCS schools, including a guy that was a 4-star recruit his fall senior year and not one of them was an impact player? This is not the ACC. We're talking about the CAA here. That's not spin. That's the truth.
I already told you what I think of VCU's incoming class: 1-2 will be all-conference, 1-2 may be decent role players, and probably 1 won't make any impact or transfer. I don't think that's unfair at all. I don't boast about how VCU's classes are going to run the CAA for the next 3 years and how we'll be the team to beat like some of your fans do. I get excited about the players we bring in and try to energize our fanbase as well. Nothing more, nothing less. A large number of fans from Mason would likely agree with me. You have a bunch of whining, self-entitled players there who's heads have been blown up by people telling them they are awesome when they haven't done anything. Guys like Ryan Pearson, Mike Morrison, Andre Cornelius, and Cam Long have shown themselves to be nothing but big-talking, self-entitled arrogant individuals. Your coaches have sacrificed talent for character and that's why you have the worst reputation among CAA schools right now after just one season. That's not something to be proud of. That's not spin; that's 100% truth. Pearson can play, but anyone who saw him at the Marriott and his actions after the CAA tournament would be ashamed to have a kid like that in their program.
That's what I said. I challenge you to point anything out in there that's spin. I already even said that several of your players may turn out to be good, even great players. If you don't think your program has been disappointing given all the advantages you should have going to the national semifinals in all of college basketball, I don't know what to tell you.
You come here posing as a VCU fan and cry foul when we post our opinions about your program and we're supposed to have thin skin?
Not a Mason fan. Was a VCU fan during Grant's tenure -- had followed his career since early in his time at Florida and always knew he was going to be a great one. Sad, but not really surprising to see how many on this board have chosen to trash him considering so many of the guys you cheer for were either brought here or convinced to stay here by AG.
Anyhow, nowadays I'm busy following my guy on the Alabama boards and don't come around here except when I feel like stirring stuff up, which is why I went for the Mason angle. I know it drives the passionate VCU fans (and a few ODU fans who lurk here) crazy -- you guys all think VCU basketball is so high and mighty, you can't stand the thought that another program in the CAA has a higher national profile. Sorry ... but it's like taking candy from a baby
Oh, and by the way, before you go ripping the accomplishments of a program that played in the Final Four as recently as 2006, remember two things: it took the arrival and development of the greatest player in VCU history for your squad to win ONE NCAA tournament game. None of the guys on your current roster have accomplished anything without riding around on Maynor's coattails. Again, sorry but the truth hurts.
Anyhow, nowadays I'm busy following my guy on the Alabama boards and don't come around here except when I feel like stirring stuff up, which is why I went for the Mason angle. I know it drives the passionate VCU fans (and a few ODU fans who lurk here) crazy -- you guys all think VCU basketball is so high and mighty, you can't stand the thought that another program in the CAA has a higher national profile. Sorry ... but it's like taking candy from a baby
Oh, and by the way, before you go ripping the accomplishments of a program that played in the Final Four as recently as 2006, remember two things: it took the arrival and development of the greatest player in VCU history for your squad to win ONE NCAA tournament game. None of the guys on your current roster have accomplished anything without riding around on Maynor's coattails. Again, sorry but the truth hurts.
