VCU Football-"we are winless"

vcu70

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I know I'm probably addressing mostly basketball fans, some of whom I'm sure enjoy good college football. I'm one of the guys who played for VCU in 1970, yes a club team paid for by the student body but everybody loved it and it was our football team. We're only undefeated if you disregard our blood , sweat, tears, effort, disapointment, enjoyment and dedication that goes with forming a first year team. How do those alumni feel when the president or anyone else makes the statement "we are undefeated". Basically they are saying we never existed because we weren't NCAA sanctioned. What is a more truthful statement rather than the cutesy "we're undefeated" is "we've never really tried" or "we are also winless".

I swore I would never give to the athletic fund until they started football, but this year I have joined my fellow frat brothers and donated and bought season tickets to basketball. I have followed VCU athletics and have been proud of them for almost 40 years now. During these forty years I followed Va Tech Football because my best friend played for them in the early 70's and is still a devout fan today.
I returned today from Atlanta's Georgia Dome from one of the most exciting spectacles I have ever witnessed. Va Tech must have had in excess of 35,000 fans in attendance for a regular season game 600 miles from Blacksburg! I don't go to many home games up there but do enjoy the away games to see other venues and big name schools such as West Va or LSU. BTW, there is no one who can tailgate like the Tigers, believe me. There must be 20-30 K who don't have tickets and watch it in the parking lots on TV.

So what is my point ? College football builds your alumni base like nothing else and we won't have it until we bite the bullet and do it. We are larger than VPI, but we couldn't get 35,000 fans if we played in the NCAA finals because we don't have a strong athletic alumi base because "we're still undefeated"
A former ODU football player who is now 90 yrs old was quoted this week, saying "Football goes with college and college goes with football". Have we partially cheated our students for 40 yrs years giving them only part of the true college experience?vcu70
Maybe I need to refine this rant and send it to our new pesident.

Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:56 am
 
The current economic climate simply doesn't allow it.

Throw in the fact that our last president chose to build the university instead of a team and there you go. This conversation may get serious in 3-5 years though.
 
It's simply a matter of perspective, sir.

What you see as being "winless", I see as being undefeated.
 
I'd love to see us get a football program...if for no other reason it would force VCU to expand it's athletic department and hopefully make room for some form of job for me when I graduate ;)

Michael Rao, make this happen.
 
vcu70 said:
I know I'm probably addressing mostly basketball fans, some of whom I'm sure enjoy good college football. I'm one of the guys who played for VCU in 1970, yes a club team paid for by the student body but everybody loved it and it was our football team. We're only undefeated if you disregard our blood , sweat, tears, effort, disapointment, enjoyment and dedication that goes with forming a first year team. How do those alumni feel when the president or anyone else makes the statement "we are undefeated". Basically they are saying we never existed because we weren't NCAA sanctioned. What is a more truthful statement rather than the cutesy "we're undefeated" is "we've never really tried" or "we are also winless".

I swore I would never give to the athletic fund until they started football, but this year I have joined my fellow frat brothers and donated and bought season tickets to basketball. I have followed VCU athletics and have been proud of them for almost 40 years now. During these forty years I followed Va Tech Football because my best friend played for them in the early 70's and is still a devout fan today.
I returned today from Atlanta's Georgia Dome from one of the most exciting spectacles I have ever witnessed. Va Tech must have had in excess of 35,000 fans in attendance for a regular season game 600 miles from Blacksburg! I don't go to many home games up there but do enjoy the away games to see other venues and big name schools such as West Va or LSU. BTW, there is no one who can tailgate like the Tigers, believe me. There must be 20-30 K who don't have tickets and watch it in the parking lots on TV.

So what is my point ? College football builds your alumni base like nothing else and we won't have it until we bite the bullet and do it. We are larger than VPI, but we couldn't get 35,000 fans if we played in the NCAA finals because we don't have a strong athletic alumi base because "we're still undefeated"
A former ODU football player who is now 90 yrs old was quoted this week, saying "Football goes with college and college goes with football". Have we partially cheated our students for 40 yrs years giving them only part of the true college experience?vcu70
Maybe I need to refine this rant and send it to our new pesident.

Loved this post. Thanks for adding your voice.
 
vcu70 said:
I know I'm probably addressing mostly basketball fans, some of whom I'm sure enjoy good college football. I'm one of the guys who played for VCU in 1970, yes a club team paid for by the student body but everybody loved it and it was our football team. We're only undefeated if you disregard our blood , sweat, tears, effort, disapointment, enjoyment and dedication that goes with forming a first year team. How do those alumni feel when the president or anyone else makes the statement "we are undefeated". Basically they are saying we never existed because we weren't NCAA sanctioned. What is a more truthful statement rather than the cutesy "we're undefeated" is "we've never really tried" or "we are also winless".

I swore I would never give to the athletic fund until they started football, but this year I have joined my fellow frat brothers and donated and bought season tickets to basketball. I have followed VCU athletics and have been proud of them for almost 40 years now. During these forty years I followed Va Tech Football because my best friend played for them in the early 70's and is still a devout fan today.
I returned today from Atlanta's Georgia Dome from one of the most exciting spectacles I have ever witnessed. Va Tech must have had in excess of 35,000 fans in attendance for a regular season game 600 miles from Blacksburg! I don't go to many home games up there but do enjoy the away games to see other venues and big name schools such as West Va or LSU. BTW, there is no one who can tailgate like the Tigers, believe me. There must be 20-30 K who don't have tickets and watch it in the parking lots on TV.

So what is my point ? College football builds your alumni base like nothing else and we won't have it until we bite the bullet and do it. We are larger than VPI, but we couldn't get 35,000 fans if we played in the NCAA finals because we don't have a strong athletic alumi base because "we're still undefeated"
A former ODU football player who is now 90 yrs old was quoted this week, saying "Football goes with college and college goes with football". Have we partially cheated our students for 40 yrs years giving them only part of the true college experience?

Well said!!
 
Even though I disagree with a lot of what vcu70 says, I must say he states his case well.

With VCU's growth and the expansion of its programs perhaps it is inevitable that the school will outgrow its funky urban origins and become more like a big traditional state school. This no doubt means that eventually, if not already, there will be a big enough population of students and alumni that fall within the traditional, somewhat homogeneous, target market for college football. This target market tends to demand certain trappings of what they consider an idealized/prototypical collegiate environment, and the archetypal crisp fall Saturday football game experience is central to this. If the student population and the alumni base have reached the point where this market has grown large enough to truly sustain a football program at a level where it can actually succeed on AND off the field, then I suppose its time has come.

It could be argued that starting a program would then draw in more and more of that target market over time, and so starting the program earlier than self-sustainability is possible as an investment toward future growth. While this approach is speculative, it isn't unreasonably so, and if the projections were solid and done with clear eyes, perhaps this too would make sense. I would just hope that the study and exploration of adding football would include a significant and meaningful role for watchdogs and devils' advocates who would work to ensure that the steps taken not overly hurt the University or any of its constituencies... be they academic or athletic ... and that the decision is based on solid reasoning and not just a "because we want it" mentality or a rah rah momentum. The burden of proof should be on the proponents.

Personally, I am glad VCU did not have football when I attended, and I would prefer that it never gets it. The very lack of traditional collegiate trappings appealed to me as I saw them as a continuation of a sheltered high school perspective... plus, I don't particularly care for the game. I have concerns that the characteristics that I love/loved about VCU would get diluted, or even driven out, by generification (this is in addition to any specific concerns about how the basketball program might be affected). But I also acknowledge that these are personal preferences and concerns, and do not necessarily reflect the will of the majority (or more importantly, the will of the market willing/able to provide the necessary support).
 
As a very adamant anti-vcu-football guy, I will say that if we get it, I will go... I just don't think it's the right move for VCU right now. The timing would be simply awful. Also, I love how competitive all of our programs are with the small amout of money that our programs have to work with. Football would pretty much completely destroy most of those programs, and add in title IX, and we will either be adding more money-losing sports (women's side) or be cutting some mens sports, which I feel we already are lacking in. (I'd really like to see an NCAA recognized LAX team... I'd love to see us add softball and LAX over football).
 
Good argument guys. But some/many of us have other alma maters, with football programs anyway. VCU will continue to suceed with or without football.

GO BLUE RAIDERS!
 
Well boom you are anti-VCU football and glad Va Tech lost. Any other Virginia school Football programs you are rooting against?

VCU Football would destroy most of the other sports, huh? Guess ODU will have to drop out of the CAA in a couple years?

and you would like to see softball and lacrosse added? Yeah, we could make enough off those two to maybe fund the Crew team's Four/ cox.
 
vcu70 said:
Guess ODU will have to drop out of the CAA in a couple years?
probably, 'beause they'll be invited to a better conference.

this is ridiculous; VCU has to have football. it's an investment that WILL pay off eventually. look at all the exposure ODU got from even announcing that it will bring back the sport. it brings a school and community together, and even more important, it brings MONEY. the amount of merchandise ODU sold saturday is apparently ridiculous, and it will keep selling throughout the year, and during the offseason. and if you read online, it has also helped sell basketball tickets. and if you care about VCU academics, which I hope you do, football revenue can go into buying better academic tools, building better facilities, and hiring better professors. and all these academic things could be the deciding factor between a potential student (ie. money) choosing VCU or another school.

remember, it's an INVESTMENT. Let's say ODU spent 40mil starting the program and sold 14000 season tix at $200 each. that's 2.8mil right there. i don't know how many suites that stadium has so I'm going with 20, and assume it's $10000 a suite for the season...that's another $200000. we're at 3mil in revenue for the season. add 1mil for advertising space and another 1mil in various revenue (concessions and merchandise), you're at 5mil in total revenue for the season. subtract 2mil for running the program and you have a 3mil profit (in a bad economy). now wait 14 years and the investment is paid off (it will probably be less then that because all these numbers I guessed are most likely low). now five or six years from now, the big east shows up and goes "hey, ODU is in an FBS starved market (hampton roads) and they have a football team. how about we invite them to the the conference, help them advertise the school, let the team catch up talent-wise, and rake in the money from the school's market." ODU says yes, joins JMU in becoming the 3rd and 4th fbs (or bcs schools) in the state, and begins to rake in the money and talent (in both football and other sports). people who are not even alumni or students of ODU become fans, the school gains some state and national recognition. better and better faculty join the school bringing in better and better students, and eventually they admit someone who figures out how to fix the maglev! is that what you guys want, someone smart enough at ODU to fix that thing?

from a VCU perspective, that last paragraph is bleak, but it's a possibility and isn't too far-fetched. and then we will nancy and moan about what could have been. vcu needs football. richmond isn't an ideal place for it, but it's far from the worst. it will pay for itself in time. an investment and patience is all that's needed.
 
I completely agree with you Wigglytuff. In fact that scenario has gone through my head as well. It was sickening to watch ODU play football this Saturday with 20,000 fans all wearing the school colors.
Our school is too big, not to have a football team.
What we need to do....
1) Start VCU football and play at the University of Richmond Stadium for awhile.
2) Then build a stadium where the current diamond is or upgrade sports backers stadium to 20,000 seats.

Anyone who thinks U of R will steal football fans away from VCU is crazy. U of R for the sheer fact that it is a private school will attract a very limited amount of people. I can definitely see a VCU football team bringing the entire city together because we are the Big public school that puts Richmond on the map.

I think South Florida should be a school VCU looks at when it comes to football. In just a short decade South Florida went from obscurity to the Big East to a #2 ranking. USF is now going to play Florida, Miami, and Florida State in the upcoming years.

Football is a must and will put this university on the map. Until then I'll be cheering for the little guys in football that overcome all odds, like Boise State.
 
vcu70 said:
Well boom you are anti-VCU football and glad Va Tech lost. Any other Virginia school Football programs you are rooting against?
ODU
UofR
I am only anti-VCU football because this is simply the WRONG time to do it. 5 years ago I might have been onboard. The local economy sucks, in case you haven't noticed. If I was just a casual fan that looked at VCU and simply said "would I like it better with or without football", my answer would be a resounding FOOTBALL!
However, it's not as simple as "want it or not", as I feel has been clearly expressed on these boards by a few posters. You folks seem to think I'd never want VCU football... I simply wouldn't want it done when it doesn't make sense, and I don't see if making sense in the near or not-so-near future. Now, to the comment of "I'm sure those sports would make $", look at D I-AA schools. Not a single one turns a profit on football. Oh sure, you can argue that football will bring more $$ in other ways, but it can also turn $$ away, such as students that decide NOT having that "typical college experience" actually attracts them to the Uni. I doubt those numbers would balance out, but given that the football would be less that profitable, it would overall be a push at best...
Now, if some ridiculously rich person steps in the athletics office and says "I'll personally pay for it, plus the stadium, plus the title IX issues", then heck yeah lets do it!
I encourage you to take a close look at the numbers. In the athletic department in the hallways, there are big displays of the amount of money we get vs the other schools, and what we are able to do with that money. The ratio of $$ to championships @ vcu is amazing, and blows the doors off of the other schools. The other thing you will notice is just how much more $$ the ODU's and GMU's get over us (and GMU doesn't have football either!) To throw a moneysucking juggernaut of football in there would be like taking a wreckingball to what's been accomplished. Just this weekend, the volleyball team was at a tourney in C-ville, and as a cost cutting measure, the team did NOT stay the night, but rather drove back to richmond after playing UVA (fairly late), then to c-ville in the morning to play the 2nd day's game (before noon). The result was a very sloppy start to the game against Campbell, and a couple of the players mentioned how exhausted they were due to the travel arrangements. Had they been playing a more formidable team than Campbell, a W would have been much less likely than it would have been had the team stayed in C-ville. Point being, most of the programs are already walking a VERY fine line between success and financial hardship.
 
Well boom, I'm glad to see you are really not against VCU having Football down the road-No where have I mentined any time frame for starting a team-I would be estatic if we planned for 2015! It takes years to get it all put together-stadium, fund-raising, etc. We might have a Perkins in our alumni somewhere who hates basketball-who knows? Under no circumstance do I or anyone else want to add a sport that will in any way jepardize or hurt any team in any way or fashion. They have all come a long way baby-I know.

My only thoughts in starting this thread was we are now a huge university and to further our travel upward in the NCAA, we must eventually have Football for several reasons.

1. Obviously we will never be in a big time conference without it-when that happens, look what happens to the recruiting game in the other sports. "Young lady, do you want to play volleyball against UNC-W and Delaware or against Villanova or North Carolina?"
2. Big time college football generates big time bucks-over 50% of NCAA football programs make net profits each year-yes and you have to make the right decisions about a ton of choices to make that happen. The right coaches, schedule, winning, good PR, lots of factors that have to fall in place. Look at the numbers of schools that start football each year and the number who gave it up and now are going back to it-Tulane, ODU, St Pauls off the top of my head this year. BTW, we lost to St Paul's in 1970-lol
Some day we need to start the ball rolling-our new president knows all about it-the right donors need to line up for it to happen.
 
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