VCU no longer Largest state school

[Mercury]

eorge Mason apparently has edged past Virginia Commonwealth as the state's largest university.

GMU's unanticipated growth this fall -- amid state and federal campaigns to increase the number of college graduates -- should be a good thing.

But the university says that enrollment surge can't be sustained without more state support, and its officials are meeting with Northern Virginia's legislative delegation to seek relief.

"George Mason has grown and grown and grown, but we can't do it anymore," said Christine LaPaille, vice president for university relations.

Final enrollment figures aren't due to the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia until mid-November and could change as some students drop out.

But a September head count showed 1,500 more graduate and undergraduate students than had been projected at the university in Fairfax County. GMU said its fall enrollment of 32,504 is the highest in the school's history.

VCU's overall fall enrollment is 32,350 students, just short of its target of 32,602.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/ ... 05/299431/

 

[ram4life]

Now that all of us have graduated or are current students, let's work on quality! Quality of students, of professors, and of programs. This concept is no reflection on any of us; we just need to move to the next level and be competitive with every state university in Virginia.

 

[buckwheat]

Now that all of us have graduated or are current students, let's work on quality! Quality of students, of professors, and of programs. This concept is no reflection on any of us; we just need to move to the next level and be competitive with every state university in Virginia.

exactly.
i couldn't care less how big of a school we are.

vcu needs to stop accepting kids who they know will likely flunk out just so the school can take their money for a few semesters.

let the dumbasses go to odu. vcu def. needs to step up the quality.

 

[ChiaPete]

I disagree. VCU is a public school. We should give virginia residents/students a chance to get their degree and better their lives. There are many a student I've known and taught here at VCU who would not have gotten in to a more "reputable" university, but have made the most of their opportunity and have made it into grad/med/law school. I myself am a recipient of VCU's lax admission policy out of highschool, but have made it through to now teach at our Medical Campus as well as a class or two at UVA and JTCC. It is analogous to our basketball players playing at a "mid major" and making the most of that opportunity. I will agree that our failure/graduation rates are way too low, of my incoming class only 40% graduated, but I firmly believe in giving everyone a chance to succeed.

 

[ram4life]

I disagree. VCU is a public school. We should give virginia residents/students a chance to get their degree and better their lives. There are many a student I've known and taught here at VCU who would not have gotten in to a more "reputable" university, but have made the most of their opportunity and have made it into grad/med/law school. I myself am a recipient of VCU's lax admission policy out of highschool, but have made it through to now teach at our Medical Campus as well as a class or two at UVA and JTCC. It is analogous to our basketball players playing at a "mid major" and making the most of that opportunity. I will agree that our failure/graduation rates are way too low, of my incoming class only 40% graduated, but I firmly believe in giving everyone a chance to succeed.

I understand where you are coming from, ChiaPete. I too was given a second chance and went on to get a doctorate. But we have an excellent community college system that can better handle the students who may not be prepared for a senior college. By these students using the community college system, VCU can make better use of their resources. If we are going to be a major player among universities, we can't be all things to all people. We are a major research university. We may not like that designation, but it places us in the company of UVA and VaTech and greatly determine our priorities.

 

[buckwheat]

I disagree. VCU is a public school. We should give virginia residents/students a chance to get their degree and better their lives. There are many a student I've known and taught here at VCU who would not have gotten in to a more "reputable" university, but have made the most of their opportunity and have made it into grad/med/law school. I myself am a recipient of VCU's lax admission policy out of highschool, but have made it through to now teach at our Medical Campus as well as a class or two at UVA and JTCC. It is analogous to our basketball players playing at a "mid major" and making the most of that opportunity. I will agree that our failure/graduation rates are way too low, of my incoming class only 40% graduated, but I firmly believe in giving everyone a chance to succeed.

i too see what you are saying.

but for every success story such as yours, there are numerous cases where kids fail out of a school which they probably never should have been accepted to in the first place. as mentioned above, the community college system is a great resource. while i too completely agree with giving everyone a chance to succeed, there still needs to be standards. the reality is, college is not for everyone. a major research university should reserve spots for the kids who have the best chance to succeed, and not simply accept, accept, accept left and right. a 40% graduation rate is pathetic and should be unacceptable.

like many of you, i was not by any means a straight-A student coming out of high school, but i did well enough with grades and standardized tests, worked hard, and graduated in four years. when i arrived at vcu in '98 i couldn't believe some of the people they had accepted. some of these kids could barely speak the english language, and more than a few of them flunked out quickly. these are the kids who should have been enrolled in a community college, proven themselves first, then possibly moved on to the university. vcu accepted them knowing there was a better chance than not that they would flunk out. 32,000 students just doesn't impress me when many of those kids will never even make it past their first year, let alone to graduation.

 

[BigE]

Now that all of us have graduated or are current students, let's work on quality! Quality of students, of professors, and of programs. This concept is no reflection on any of us; we just need to move to the next level and be competitive with every state university in Virginia.

exactly.
i couldn't care less how big of a school we are.

vcu needs to stop accepting kids who they know will likely flunk out just so the school can take their money for a few semesters.

let the dumbasses go to odu. vcu def. needs to step up the quality.

..and who exactly are the dumbasses. Do they come into registration with a sign around their necks?

 

[buckwheat]

..and who exactly are the dumbasses. Do they come into registration with a sign around their necks?

yeah, maybe dumbass is a bit harsh, but i'm pretty sure my rather lengthy post above yours explains fairly well what i meant.

 

[Deuce]

While VCU is a public institution, that does not mean that mediocrity should be accepted. If struggling students can't even bother to attend class, or at least attempt to do the required work, then do you really think that they deserve a place in an institution based on the premises of academic and intellectual development?

 

[ram4life]

..and who exactly are the dumbasses. Do they come into registration with a sign around their necks?

yeah, maybe dumbass is a bit harsh, but i'm pretty sure my rather lengthy post above yours explains fairly well what i meant.

In a way, buckwheat, they do come with a sign around their neck. One of the best predictors of future performance is past performance. Grades in high school, along with standardized tests, can help predict what they do in college. Writing is one skill that must be evaluated before a student enters college. It is a great predictor of future success. Let's give every one an opportunity to go to college; but let's make sure they are in the right college. A research university, such as VCU, is going to have large classes and less accessibility to the professors. A research university--there are only three in Virginia--VCU, VaTech, and UVa) is--and should be--a place for students who can work independently as a freshman and sophomore. It is in the last two years where they should get a lots of personal attention. Teaching universities--such as James Madison, George Mason, and ODU--and the community college system, don't have research as one of its major goals. A VCU, professors must spend 45% of their time on research, 40% on teaching, and 15% on service. At teaching universities, teaching is usually around 70-80%. Again, let's get the potential college student in the right university so that everyone can succeed.

 

[ChiaPete]

While VCU is a public institution, that does not mean that mediocrity should be accepted. If struggling students can't even bother to attend class, or at least attempt to do the required work, then do you really think that they deserve a place in an institution based on the premises of academic and intellectual development?

No, and neither does VCU, which is why our graduation rate is low. We kick out the failing students.

 

[Deuce]

No, and neither does VCU, which is why our graduation rate is low. We kick out the failing students.

Isn't that what the admissions process is supposed to to? If anything, allowing these students to come in is a waste of vital academic resources. Sure, people deserve a second chance, but the student that are obviously at a risk for failing should be on academic probation(or at least increased attention) from the start.

 

[artRAMinMN]

I think the let-most-in but wash-many-out model suits VCU's role and mission. Perhaps the washing-out mechanisms need to operate faster and more strictly... both to shorten the washee's agony, and to free-up the resources best used by another... but erecting high barriers to entry would be a rejection of VCU's roots. The funnel is very wide on one end, but much narrower on the other.

 

[buckwheat]

but erecting high barriers to entry would be a rejection of VCU's roots.

there are times when rejecting ones roots can be beneficial. i believe this is one of those times.

...and i don't necessarily think there should be "high barriers" per say, but rather a little step up. that's all.

 

[artRAMinMN]

but erecting high barriers to entry would be a rejection of VCU's roots.

there are times when rejecting ones roots can be beneficial. i believe this is one of those times.

...and i don't necessarily think there should be "high barriers" per say, but rather a little step up. that's all.

I certainly disagree about rejecting our roots... I would hate for VCU to become a school for the Judge Smails of the world (the world needs ditch diggers too)

But that being said, I think there are certainly ways to improve and fine tune the whole process. The measurements of the performance and achievements of teenagers as currently used to quantify potential seem awfully crude, and many times narrowly tailored, considering the huge range of variables in how any of those applicants arrived at the school doors. I could see a significant increase in selectivity if I had more confidence that higher selectiveness wasn't just using the blunt tools usually relied upon, but was also complimented by other methods that might better find those diamonds-in-the-rough. Otherwise the privileged but otherwise banal kid who was a 10th grade lickspittle wins out over the kid who maybe needs the college experience before his promise even shows.

Where I see the proper place for greater rigor is in one's progression through a program... as if one has to reapply and prove worthy of advancement along with way. Getting into a school shouldn't be the honor, it should be getting through it. An acceptance letter is an opportunity, a degree is an accomplishment.