VCU no longer Largest state school

[buckwheat]

But that being said, I think there are certainly ways to improve and fine tune the whole process. The measurements of the performance and achievements of teenagers as currently used to quantify potential seem awfully crude, and many times narrowly tailored, considering the huge range of variables in how any of those applicants arrived at the school doors. I could see a significant increase in selectivity if I had more confidence that higher selectiveness wasn't just using the blunt tools usually relied upon, but was also complimented by other methods that might better find those diamonds-in-the-rough. Otherwise the privileged but otherwise banal kid who was a 10th grade lickspittle wins out over the kid who maybe needs the college experience before his promise even shows.

um, ok. i guess.

 

[ram4life]

but erecting high barriers to entry would be a rejection of VCU's roots.

there are times when rejecting ones roots can be beneficial. i believe this is one of those times.

...and i don't necessarily think there should be "high barriers" per say, but rather a little step up. that's all.

I certainly disagree about rejecting our roots... I would hate for VCU to become a school for the Judge Smails of the world (the world needs ditch diggers too)

But that being said, I think there are certainly ways to improve and fine tune the whole process. The measurements of the performance and achievements of teenagers as currently used to quantify potential seem awfully crude, and many times narrowly tailored, considering the huge range of variables in how any of those applicants arrived at the school doors. I could see a significant increase in selectivity if I had more confidence that higher selectiveness wasn't just using the blunt tools usually relied upon, but was also complimented by other methods that might better find those diamonds-in-the-rough. Otherwise the privileged but otherwise banal kid who was a 10th grade lickspittle wins out over the kid who maybe needs the college experience before his promise even shows.

Where I see the proper place for greater rigor is in one's progression through a program... as if one has to reapply and prove worthy of advancement along with way. Getting into a school shouldn't be the honor, it should be getting through it. An acceptance letter is an opportunity, a degree is an accomplishment.

I have no problem with you thinking. It seem to me that you are thinking outside the box concerning admissions. Well thought out discussion of the topic. Thanks.

 

[Sometimes]

I think this thread is headed on the right track. I am another example of someone who came out of high school with poor grades.

When I first started VCU, I was under a probationary program where I had two semesters to prove I could cut it at VCU. After 4 semesters I had a 4.0 and applied and was accepted for transfer to UVA and W&M. I chose not to go to either.

I couldn't even get into VCU due to my high school grades -- they had to put me under a probationary period first. Yet I graduated with an excellent GPA and have done very well for myself since. And I don't believe I'm a true outlier -- many people don't learn true responsibility when they are 15, 16 or 17 years old. Plenty of people that did poorly in high school have gone on to do great things at a university or in the work place.

 

[Deuce]

This is semi-OT, but I need to vent...Sadly, today I've concluded that VCU is, quite possibly, the biggest piece of bullpoop, excuse of an academic institution that I've ever had to endure. In fact, the vast majority of its student body consists of primarily "dumbasses". Specifically, today I received an email that my Honors level POLI 365 professor had been fired due to complaints from POLI 103 students(primarily freshmen and thus, haven't the slightest idea what ACTUAL college courses demand). Maybe it's the fact that I stayed up until 4am typing an 8 page critique that I turned into to him hours before the announcement of his dismissal, but this all too typical of VCU's acceptance of mediocrity and their excessive willingness to cave into demands from apathetic and entirely worthless students, and frankly, this is the last straw. One would think that the Political Science Dean would take into consideration the fact that every single one of his higher level POLI students are more than willing to advocate for his cause. In addition, the professor involved, who is well regard in the field of International Political Economy, epitomized what college professors are supposed to accomplish. Although he had a degree of arrogance about him, he was, without a doubt, one of the more knowledgeable and thought-provoking professors that I've had during my time at VCU.Though, that's not saying too much, especially now. Yet once again, this is just another example of caving into the demands of mediocre and apathetic students is all too typical of VCU.

Sometimes, I'm currently in the same exact position that you were in, yet, due to the current circumstances and irrefutable facts, I look forward to transferring to an institution that actively cultivates and values the principle of academic development. What a fudgeing joke and simply put, I'm disgusted. It was nice to have a professor that actually encouraged academic and intellectual development...

 

[MarcusNation]

This is semi-OT, but I need to vent...Sadly, today I've concluded that VCU is, quite possibly, the biggest piece of bullpoop, excuse of an academic institution that I've ever had to endure. In fact, the vast majority of its student body consists of primarily "dumbasses". Specifically, today I received an email that my Honors level POLI 365 professor had been fired due to complaints from POLI 103 students(primarily freshmen and thus, haven't the slightest idea what ACTUAL college courses demand). Maybe it's the fact that I stayed up until 4am typing an 8 page critique that I turned into to him hours before the announcement of his dismissal, but this all too typical of VCU's acceptance of mediocrity and their excessive willingness to cave into demands from apathetic and entirely worthless students, and frankly, this is the last straw. One would think that the Political Science Dean would take into consideration the fact that every single one of his higher level POLI students are more than willing to advocate for his cause. In addition, the professor involved, who is well regard in the field of International Political Economy, epitomized what college professors are supposed to accomplish. Although he had a degree of arrogance about him, he was, without a doubt, one of the more knowledgeable and thought-provoking professors that I've had during my time at VCU.Though, that's not saying too much, especially now. Yet once again, this is just another example of caving into the demands of mediocre and apathetic students is all too typical of VCU.

Sometimes, I'm currently in the same exact position that you were in, yet, due to the current circumstances and irrefutable facts, I look forward to transferring to an institution that actively cultivates and values the principle of academic development. What a fudgeing joke and simply put, I'm disgusted. It was nice to have a professor that actually encouraged academic and intellectual development...

I understand you are upset, and some of this post may be a reflection of that (or all of it, I don't want to speak for you), but I am going to have to disagree to an extent. I had many classes with a female professor of Islamic Studies (name withheld) who went through a very rough time at VCU. While she was in tenure at VCU she had a many threats placed against her life by religious extremist. VCU did everything in their power to make sure that she and her students were safe, but that she could remain teaching. And she did. I took 5 of her courses over my years there and she was a incredible fantastic woman.

Moral of the story is this though.. Some of her past/present students got together and said we wanted her there. We wanted her back. So, maybe you should try talking to some people and getting together a petition or some students to go and talk to the dean. Let the Dean know what you are thinking. Clearly the Dean only has one side of the equation and is going off what is being said. So, go say the opposite. Go say how important this professor is to you.

In the end, you will feel better about the situation. You will have done everything in your power to correct it. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but at least you didn't sit idly-by. That way, if your decision is to leave, you can feel 100% in that decision.

Or, maybe you've done that, or just don't want to.. that is up to you. I'm not trying to stand on a pulpit and lecture you here. I just wanted to pass along some advice that worked for me in the past on a semi-related topic.

Either way...good luck!

 

[zed1]

Interesting discussion, and thanks for your thoughtful posts. I seriously doubt that raising VCU's standards and improving both education and research at VCU will hamper its ability to serve as a school of opportunity as well as a research center. And I agree that community colleges in fact do serve as a gateway for students who struggle and deserve a second chance. My wife was such a student --dropped out of high school, went to community college for a year, then did a BA at VCU. She went on to get a PhD at Big Ten school and now is faculty.... at VCU.
A university is a university and to take this title one must earn it, with quality research and education. Someone described VCU as one of Virginia's "research universities." This is not completely true. VCU is midway in making a transition between being a teaching university and being a research university. The teaching loads for most of the faculty are too high for them to compete nationally for research productivity. Many of the senior faculty, especially in the social sciences and humanities, are "dead wood," meaning that they are not current with research and have ceased to publish. This is clear in the general dearth of extracurricular intellectual foment on campus: very few guest lectures and symposiums, few invited lecturers, and few public presentations of faculty research. When research is presented it is usually junior faculty (who still actually DO research) and the rare invited lecturer from another campus.
Does this mean that VCU is focusing its energy on teaching rather than research, and offering something good to the community? Ideally yes, but in truth this is not always the case. I have heard through the grapevine of certain faculty members teaching identical classes with different titles (less work for them!), and multiple complaints from students about certain faculty members who don;t give feedback on students papers.....because they DON'T READ THEM. These kinds of things should never happen at a university, ever.
Let me be clear that the only way to build a quality university instead of a duded up community college is to both enable and enforce research as well as good teaching. VCU needs to invest heavily in its faculty and provide them with the opportunity to research and publish throughout their careers on a level comparable to Research 1 universities (VCU is still not regarded as a research 1 school, it is in between teaching and research). VCU is frankly too big to be a teaching school at this point and there is one direction and only one direction it must go, toward higher quality research, academic integrity, and quality education. To achieve this it needs to redouble its educational mission while honest to god investing in graduate education for a change (this means PAYING graduate students, not having them pay for their school), and expanding the intensity and frequency of academic discourse and intellectual honesty on campus.
Thanks

 

[artRAMinMN]

Academic politics and infighting happen pretty much everywhere. Some of the worst tiffs happen at the Ivies, but it can be found up and down the quality/prestige hierarchy.

Occasionally such an incident will have some element that draws the attention of the outside world, but the vast majority of the time, it stays relatively local because it's either too petty or inside-baseball for anyone beyond that particular campus to give a darn.

Now that doesn't make any of it ok, and the point isn't just to grin and bear it.... by all means work toward improvement, either of the whole, or for yourself. Just keep perspective that just because you might not have heard about stuff like this happening elsewhere, that doesn't mean it doesn't. Lots and lots of students everywhere have to wade through BS all the time. You are not a unique snowflake.