What If?

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Rambob

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I have been thinking about this for a while and UR's win over Purdue really cemented it for me. What if mid-majors stop acting like mid-majors and build themselves toward major status. Of course there is nothing new in this thought; Gonzaga has been held out as the shining example of what is possible for 10+ years and VCU and other programs have embraced the idea talking about becoming the Gonzaga of the East or whatever.

What is interesting to me, however is the fact that several Virginia mid-majors (UR, VCU, GMU and ODU) are making the changes in their approach to men's basketball that have and will continue to result in higher levels of success. The keys to this success as I see it are more money, greater fan excitement/support, better coaches, better recruiting, and better schedules. The schools listed have achieved in each area to varying degrees. For example, UR has had the most success with better scheduling and actually winning against Top 25 teams, while VCU and ODU have done much better than the other two in generating excitement and fan support.

Here's where it gets interesting for me. What if, these four teams continue to invest and improve in each of these areas and they all become perenniel Top 50 teams? Then playing each other takes on much more significance and our resumes become enhanced by playing each other. Three of the four teams mentioned are 4-1 or 5-1 on the season with wins over significant opponents: UR over Purdue, VCU over Wake Forest and UCLA and ODU over Clemson and Xavier. The game Wednesday between ODU and UR takes on added significance as UR may be ranked in the Top 25 and ODU will probably be among those "also receiving votes".
 
By the numbers, our 4 toughest games outside of Tennessee will likely be ODUx2, UR and Wofford. GMU may be 5th on that list, but hopefully UCLA goes on to have a strong year!
 
VCU4LIFE said:
By the numbers, our 4 toughest games outside of Tennessee will likely be ODUx2, UR and Wofford. GMU may be 5th on that list, but hopefully UCLA goes on to have a strong year!
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They were picked 3rd in the PAC 10 if that happens it will be an excellent win for us.
 
Rambob said:
Gonzaga has been held out as the shining example of what is possible for 10+ years...
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Gonzaga has had the same coach for 10+ years. We have not.
 
mrCAA said:
Is UR considered a mid-major?
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Some say that the A-10 is not mid major, I don't think that they include them in those mid major polls, but of course they are not from a BCS conference either. So however you want to look at it. There is no official distinction. I tend to think of it as the BCS power 6 and the rest of the conferences. Although I am not too concerned with it either way.
 
This is kind of what I've been saying for a long time.

What if the mid-major teams all started to limit the BCS teams they will play, and only played each other? What would happen is that the better mids would all have much better RPI rankings because the BCS schools would be forced to play each other more and thus would have more losses, or more games against different weaker BCS schools. Remember that RPI is all about wins and losses, all about percentages.

The second point I've always wondered about is why the mids and smaller schools even put up with the BCS schools dictating rules and schedules. NCAA Division I basketball is made up of about 345 schools. More than 60% are made up of schools NOT in the BCS conferences. We out vote them. It would be easy to force them to schedule differently. But we don't. Why?
 
Ultimately, the reason these types of uprisings don't occur is money.

In the short term, many smaller schools depend on the money generated by playing at bigger schools to fund their program(s). Refusing to play the big schools would hurt the bottom line, and would force some schools out of the equation. That might be a good thing in the long run, as these schools operate under a model that isn't necessarily sustainable, but that's not the way they will vote.

In the longer run, if the smaller schools try to take too much control/power, the bigger schools will just pick up stakes and set up their own rules--like the BCS schools did in football. The networks would still support an NCAA tournament with 48-64 teams from the power conferences, and the $$$ would probably be greater than it is for the BCS conference schools now--ESPN will happily trade getting 20 Goliaths for a shot at 2 Cinderellas any day, to mix my metaphors. ;-) There are always conversations going on among bigger schools about this as it is. Some of the NCAA's rules (like recruiting cycles, visits, contacts, scholarship limits, automatic berths, ...) hurt the bigger schools by leveling the playing field--and there frequent rumblings about leaving the NCAA, or threatening to to gain concessions.

When VCU got left out of the mix when the Metro disbanded to form Conference USA , that was a big blow to the Rams' higher aspirations. FWIW, South Florida was one of the schools invited to Conf USA at the time, along with UAB, Louisville, Memphis, Charlotte, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Tulane (I think that's the whole list--they only wanted 8). Lots of things went into that decision, and at the time VCU was a better basketball program than several of these--but football, and facilities, and location, and national rep, and politics, all played into the decision. If that decision goes the other way, it's interesting to think about where the Rams might be today. Moving forward, VCU will have a tough time getting to the next level without changing conference affiliations (creating a new, more competitive conference for hoops might be an option, but the Colonial fits VCU across the athletic board pretty well, I think). However, a few decisions the have gone against the Rams in recent years (being left out of the NIT a couple of times when they were more than deserving) shows that there are still some perception issues out there, and that's a point of concern that guys like Norwood Teague need to constantly address--but that wins over Wake and UCLA might help.

On a related note, Richmond's move from the CAA to the A10 was made for precisely this reason--the A10 is considered at the lower end of the top tier of leagues, the CAA is not. Time has not yet proven that this decision makes UR a better basketball program--but they'll get more automatic respect from the PTB because of the affiliation. THAT'S the one thing that folks could work to change, and that RPI and the like perpetuate to some extent even though claiming to be "fair and balanced". But perceptions are hard to change.

My $.02. Sorry for the long post on my 2nd one on this board. This is a topic of great interest to me--but I promise most of what I submit will be less lengthy--and perhaps more sensible. ;-)
 
Unfortunately for us Football seems to be the driving force for most of the conference changing that has happened.
 
can't agree more, it's all about money :lol:

rejii said:
Ultimately, the reason these types of uprisings don't occur is money.

In the short term, many smaller schools depend on the money generated by playing at bigger schools to fund their program(s). Refusing to play the big schools would hurt the bottom line, and would force some schools out of the equation. That might be a good thing in the long run, as these schools operate under a model that isn't necessarily sustainable, but that's not the way they will vote.

In the longer run, if the smaller schools try to take too much control/power, the bigger schools will just pick up stakes and set up their own rules--like the BCS schools did in football. The networks would still support an NCAA tournament with 48-64 teams from the power conferences, and the $$$ would probably be greater than it is for the BCS conference schools now--ESPN will happily trade getting 20 Goliaths for a shot at 2 Cinderellas any day, to mix my metaphors. ;-) There are always conversations going on among bigger schools about this as it is. Some of the NCAA's rules (like recruiting cycles, visits, contacts, scholarship limits, automatic berths, ...) hurt the bigger schools by leveling the playing field--and there frequent rumblings about leaving the NCAA, or threatening to to gain concessions.

When VCU got left out of the mix when the Metro disbanded to form Conference USA , that was a big blow to the Rams' higher aspirations. FWIW, South Florida was one of the schools invited to Conf USA at the time, along with UAB, Louisville, Memphis, Charlotte, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Tulane (I think that's the whole list--they only wanted 8). Lots of things went into that decision, and at the time VCU was a better basketball program than several of these--but football, and facilities, and location, and national rep, and politics, all played into the decision. If that decision goes the other way, it's interesting to think about where the Rams might be today. Moving forward, VCU will have a tough time getting to the next level without changing conference affiliations (creating a new, more competitive conference for hoops might be an option, but the Colonial fits VCU across the athletic board pretty well, I think). However, a few decisions the have gone against the Rams in recent years (being left out of the NIT a couple of times when they were more than deserving) shows that there are still some perception issues out there, and that's a point of concern that guys like Norwood Teague need to constantly address--but that wins over Wake and UCLA might help.

On a related note, Richmond's move from the CAA to the A10 was made for precisely this reason--the A10 is considered at the lower end of the top tier of leagues, the CAA is not. Time has not yet proven that this decision makes UR a better basketball program--but they'll get more automatic respect from the PTB because of the affiliation. THAT'S the one thing that folks could work to change, and that RPI and the like perpetuate to some extent even though claiming to be "fair and balanced". But perceptions are hard to change.

My $.02. Sorry for the long post on my 2nd one on this board. This is a topic of great interest to me--but I promise most of what I submit will be less lengthy--and perhaps more sensible. ;-)
Click to expand...
 
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