Will ODU drop off any?

Natty

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Gerald Lee is a good player...but honestly, against us he has never had great games.

They lose him next season and that's about it. I know they're our arch rival, we hate them, etc etc...but I think with Hassell, Finney, and Bazemore being seniors (2) and a junior next year..and returning all their guards (who they could definitely upgrade)...I don't see a ton of drop off for the Monarchs.

I think Mason will be a nightmare to play next season, Drexel as well, then JMU will be no fun once they get healthy.
 
Natty said:
Gerald Lee is a good player...but honestly, against us he has never had great games.

They lose him next season and that's about it. I know they're our arch rival, we hate them, etc etc...but I think with Hassell, Finney, and Bazemore being seniors (2) and a junior next year..and returning all their guards (who they could definitely upgrade)...I don't see a ton of drop off for the Monarchs.

I think Mason will be a nightmare to play next season, Drexel as well, then JMU will be no fun once they get healthy.

Yeah I've been saying this for awhile. Lee has never been as good as ODU fans claimed or wanted him to be. He's a good big man with a nice, soft touch. He has good games on occassion and has the skill set to probably play with anyone in the country. He lacked the desire and the fire to take over a game or impose his will on it. Lee could play a whole game and you would never notice him, but at the end of the day he'll have a decent stat line. Larry in contrast, marks his stamp on every play that he makes. His impact on the game is unmistakable, both when he plays with passion and when he disappears.

For this reason, although ODU fans probably wouldn't like the above statement, there is a positive. Next year they won't be hurting nearly as much since Lee really wasn't that much of an impact. I think Hassell has always been a raw big guy who benefitted from the attention defenses gave to Lee and got easy buckets. I'm not sure I've ever seen him create his own shot, which Lee can do. I don't expect Hassell to improve much, if at all, his senior year. I do think that he'll still be able to get a lot of garbage buckets and bully his way to points due to his size and girth. He's a load for sure down-low. I think Kent Bazemore could be a really good player for the Monarchs, but he turns the ball over like crazy, too much to be a point guard. He has great athleticism and quickness for his size and I think he will be an All-CAA type player before his career is done at ODU. Chris Cooper, Keyon Carter, and Nick Wright are a good CAA frontcourt. The guards will continue to be mediocre...their incoming guard Dimitri Batten can't shoot a lick from outside either. Their redshirt freshman Josh Hicks is a decent 3 point shooter, but they redshirted him for a reason.

I see ODU as being a very similar team next season: a slow, plodding, methodical team that beats you down on the boards with size and gets easy baskets in low scoring games. They'll still be a poor outside shooting team with mediocre guards except for Bazemore who I think could be a legitimate star if he could keep the ball and develop a more consistent outside shot.

As for Mason, absolutely. I think they'll likely be the team to beat next year if Larry leaves this offseason.
 
I am local, thus I am an ODU fan and love the ODU/VCU rivalry. I tell anyone who'll listen that it is the best kept secret rivalry in college hoops.

I don't think they'll be a drop off any next year. Bazemore is a great talent. But ... I just don't see much there for 2011-2012. That is when I think it will be very noticeable. Next year Hassell, Finney, Carter and James will be seniors and, again other than Bazemore, just don't see much of a nucleus.
 
I think the loss of Lee could help the 'narchs somewhat. It seems counter-intuitive, but I think they try to rely on him too much, and as a result, if he is contained, they're mostly at a loss.

For comparison, I think of Nick George's senior season. We had some really good players, but they (and I guess Capel) deferred to/relied on Nick too much... sometimes he was good enough to carry the load, but not always, and when he was stopped, everybody else didn't seem to know how to respond. The next season the conventional wisdom was we would suffer a drop-off, but instead the guys who had been staying in Nick's shadow burst out as good players in their own rights, and we were actually much better than before. Not to say it was Nick's fault by any means, just that in having to adjust to the absence of one great player, a team can redefine itself, and find itself, in ways that make for a true addition-by-subtraction.

...of course part of the equation was Capel and Grant... Like BT, Capel did, imo, exhibit a stubbornness to stick with his style regardless of whether or not it fit with the collective skill-sets of his players, although I believe that Capel was better at connecting with and inspiring his players even if the style did not suit them. Grant seemed to bring in more of a willingness to adapt to the reality of what his players had to offer, and I think that Smart is continuing this (notwithstanding an understandable learning curve).

But their coach is BT, and seemingly will continue to be... and the old dog doesn't seem likely to learn new tricks any time soon, so I'm not sure they'll be able to take advantage of any addition-by-subtraction opportunities.
 
artRAMinMN said:
I think the loss of Lee could help the 'narchs somewhat. It seems counter-intuitive, but I think they try to rely on him too much, and as a result, if he is contained, they're mostly at a loss.

For comparison, I think of Nick George's senior season. We had some really good players, but they (and I guess Capel) deferred to/relied on Nick too much... sometimes he was good enough to carry the load, but not always, and when he was stopped, everybody else didn't seem to know how to respond. The next season the conventional wisdom was we would suffer a drop-off, but instead the guys who had been staying in Nick's shadow burst out as good players in their own rights, and we were actually much better than before. Not to say it was Nick's fault by any means, just that in having to adjust to the absence of one great player, a team can redefine itself, and find itself, in ways that make for a true addition-by-subtraction.

...of course part of the equation was Capel and Grant... Like BT, Capel did, imo, exhibit a stubbornness to stick with his style regardless of whether or not it fit with the collective skill-sets of his players, although I believe that Capel was better at connecting with and inspiring his players even if the style did not suit them. Grant seemed to bring in more of a willingness to adapt to the reality of what his players had to offer, and I think that Smart is continuing this (notwithstanding an understandable learning curve).

But their coach is BT, and seemingly will continue to be... and the old dog doesn't seem likely to learn new tricks any time soon, so I'm not sure they'll be able to take advantage of any addition-by-subtraction opportunities.

I understand the analogy
but Lee is no Nick George :lol:
 
BigE said:
I understand the analogy
but Lee is no Nick George :lol:

:lol: very true... plus, I think saying that they will "drop off" implies that they are currently higher than they really are
 
What's interesting is that Lee is probably the only player I see taking lead of the team when things get tough. The thing is Lee really didn't get many shots and didn't have much impact on the game on Saturday. However, I remember the Hostra game in the tourney last year where Lee saved the ODU team. ODU relies on Lee too much though because he's not a player that will normally take the team on his back and be able to lead the team to a W. When VCU relied on Maynor to win the games last year everyone knew he had the ability to do that by dropping 30+ pts if needed. No offense to Lee but he's not the type of player whose gonna drop those kind of numbers every game. Having said that I was kind of confused that ODU didn't try to get the ball into Lee more during Saturday's game when James and their guards started having trouble. Neely stepped up for them though.
 
I think Batten and Hicks will help out alot more than you think. Hicks has range and can play the point, which if thats true, could mean a reduced role for Darius James which in turn would be a net positive for ODU. Batten is a slasher/scorer that when combined with Bazemore, could give us a pretty decent backcourt as far as attacking the basket goes.

Also, Anton Larsen is a complete wildcard. Supposedly he is a 7"0 with shooting range who is more of a skilled Euro than a banger, but you never have any clue what you are getting there. We all hope he isn't another Sam, but you never know. Not going to count on any production from him, but even still, with Baze Finney Carter and Hassell, you have a good solid nucleus with some new parts in Batten and Hicks that could really help us out.

Illiadis is also a bit of a wildcard. He was huge against Georgetown, hitting 3 bombs, but didn't even see the court against you guys til the game was over. Sometime you just have to scratch your head. Regardless, it will once again be the 3 Va. schools competing for the CAA crown next year, while Northeastern will have a huge drop off with Janning and Adako moving on.
 
I don't think ODU will drop off any, they'll always be top 4 CAA material.

That being said, just watching Larsen walk around, he looks pretty awkward. Probably more like a Denis Orlov, Janko Mrksk, and Sam Harris, than he is an Alex Loughton, Gerald Lee or LF Licholitov.
 
Pavarotti said:
I don't think ODU will drop off any, they'll always be top 4 CAA material.

VCU, GMU and ODU will always be somewhere in the top 4. There is no parity in the CAA. The good teams will always be good and are getting better while the bad will always be bad and appear to be getting worse
 
VCU, GMU and ODU will always be somewhere in the top 4. There is no parity in the CAA. The good teams will always be good and are getting better while the bad will always be bad and appear to be getting worse

i completely disagree. no team is guaranteed anything in this league. a bad coaching change, an injured player or two, a couple bad transfers/recruits, etc....and you could be in for a tough few seasons. just look at uncw. nobody would have thought they would fall this hard a few years back. heck, mason went from being a nothing commuter-school program to final four darlings, and finally to a nice mid-major destination virtually overnight.

sure, the three teams you mentioned have played great ball the last few seasons and seem to be the most consistent right now, but they haven't always been, and they may not be in the future.

unlv anyone? san francisco anyone?
 
BaNgMyPrOgRaM said:
I guess they wont drop off anymore. They are at mediocre now. :lol:

This. Due to the crappy programs at the bottom of the CAA, they will never be a bottom feeder, but they'll never be great either. Now that they have minor league football, they will rationalize and accept mediocrity in basketball even more. The Delaware/JMU syndrome.

P.S. I heard from a good source that Larsen is a real stiff who won't sniff the floor for a long time. He's basically useless.
 
artRAMinMN said:
I think the loss of Lee could help the 'narchs somewhat. It seems counter-intuitive, but I think they try to rely on him too much, and as a result, if he is contained, they're mostly at a loss.

The games I've seen this year, I didn't see them relying on him all that much. I think he does most of his damage against the crappy teams who are talent-challenged.
 
VRam said:
BaNgMyPrOgRaM said:
I guess they wont drop off anymore. They are at mediocre now. :lol:

This. Due to the crappy programs at the bottom of the CAA, they will never be a bottom feeder, but they'll never be great either. Now that they have minor league football, they will rationalize and accept mediocrity in basketball even more. The Delaware/JMU syndrome.

P.S. I heard from a good source that Larsen is a real stiff who won't sniff the floor for a long time. He's basically useless.

Enjoy pillow-fight Friday!

I'm glad your sources are "in the know". I think you are full of sh*t, but that usually goes without saying.
 
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