- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Posts
- 13,145
- Likes
- 28,995
When Ace went down we were behind by 4. Anyone's game.
Players 2023-24 Roster Thread
- Thread starter VCU Finance 2008
- Start date
Gopher+RamFan
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2010
- Posts
- 4,873
- Likes
- 10,504
I'm noting those that say we were in contention for an at-large in the 2nd half of last season so I know not to take your comments regarding the bubble seriously next year.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Posts
- 23,476
- Likes
- 70,843
This is absolutely true. It is also true that I never felt like we were in the game. It felt as though we were trying to climb out of a well the entire game, and the lid crashed shut when Ace got hurt
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Posts
- 13,145
- Likes
- 28,995
I felt in it up to that point but tenuously. Definitely agree we lost the thread when he got hurt, which wasn't too surprising. Playing St Mary's is a lot like playing UVA - down four or five feels like being down ten or more, but in an absolute sense it's still just a few baskets. With him in it felt like we had a chance to stay in contact with them, even with the dire foul situation in the front court.
Mistachill
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2009
- Posts
- 21,112
- Likes
- 38,461
He has conviction about his theory/formula. We've gone over this for years with him, "correlation" does not equal "causation." Every season is different with different resumes on the bubble.
Mistachill
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2009
- Posts
- 21,112
- Likes
- 38,461
I agree, just about everybody I watched the game with felt we were fortunately not to be behind by more than that. Of course, we will never know what would've happened if Ace didn't get hurt which opens the excuse door for some. Yeah, I guess it's possible Ace could've gone Jimmy Butler and willed us to a win. But if the game continued as it was going, very unlikely we were going to pull out a win.
It’s not acceptable to have a program that loses every game against good competition when one player gets hurt… especially when that guy gets hurt so much. Two straight years where it was Ace or bust.
Actually it is acceptable. VCY like most other basketball loving programs have to accept that reality. Almost every team has an Alpha. Almost every team isnt the same when that Alpha goes down.
We actually didnt lose all the time without our Alpha Ace, as we beat Pittsburg without him this year. We also beat a very good Kennesaw State team without Ace as well.
As to losing in the NCAA's, we played a St. Mary's squad that beat Gonzaga, With or without Ace iwinning that game was an uphill battle. St. Mary's were a top 20 squad for a reason. We actually had them as off balance as they had us and if the ball bounces a bit differently in the first 10 minutes of the game, we could have been up.
The fact that we were out of sorts and they couldn't separate speak highly of our team's grit and defense. However, you dont lose the POY/DPOY in a tight game and expect to win. Let's be clear Ace was fouled, he was taken out and we got nothing.
Look we are who we are, a solid MM. We could move to P5 and get better recruits and yes we would compete at a slightly higher level. However, today we are among the best of the MM's and we can beat mediocre P5. Further, if we get hot and everyone stays healthy we can compete with the better P5's.
However, our margin of error is thin and that's is simply a reality that we and most other non- perennially top 5 maybe to 10 programs have to deal with. So yes, if we lose our best player, especially the best player in our conference on both sides of the ball we arent going to be favored against top 20 talent.
If Dayton loses Toppin in during their monster season they lose to good competition. We lost Evans and we lost to UCF.
Where is the shame in that? To expect more is unrealistic.
Last edited:
We lost Briante Weber for the season in 2015 and went on to win 4 games in Brooklyn and almost beat Ohio State in the NCAA Tournament. That team had a lot of players recruited while we were in the CAA and played in a much better A10.
Bri might not have been our best player, but he was the key to our defense and the heart and soul of our team. It’s not unrealistic to expect a team to be built to make it through a major injury.
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Posts
- 50,615
- Likes
- 163,203
VCU has been stomped twice by St Mary's. They should not be dominating VCU. Call me crazy. I don't care.
I think it was more than just geographic. I think he realized that VCU is a step up in so many ways. I also dont see USU as the same as VCU and dont think most HC's would as well. However, we all have our opinions.
I see Wheeler the same as you see Odom. I think he was good enough as a high schooler to give us what we need which is a big strong body in the post who wont be dominated like all our guys last year when they faced that type player.
We made UR's mediocre big man seem like All Conference POY and well we all know what Watkins and Camara did to us. Even the third big for Dayton had a field day against us. As did a lot of mediocre bigs in the league as long as they had legit size. Wheeler is a tough kid and he might not be a go to scorer, he will defend the post and the rim and that's all that is needed.
I have faith in KK as Tar Heel stated, he should be ok in the A10 and Tampa Kap also opined that KK would give us some scoring more like a wing. Also, I think Fermin and Tobi can do nothing but get better. As such,maybe no all star in the bunch but enough to keep the other teams honest and let our guards do work.
Last edited:
RAMBALLFAN
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2016
- Posts
- 1,314
- Likes
- 2,586
In our last butt kicking I wonder how much MRs unconventional lineups played into it. He was playing some of these guys together that we hadn’t seen much of except for possibly late in games. I know MR knew what these guys were capable of so maybe his strategy was to show SM looks they hadn’t seen before.?. To be transparent we were more than a little confused and didn’t really see any noticeable change in the flow of the game. So I wonder if coaching didn’t play a significant role in our last loss.
80sRamBaseballRugby
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2012
- Posts
- 1,842
- Likes
- 4,083
Totally agree. There were a ton of brackets with VCU over St Marys including many of the so called experts. I expect VCU to beat St Marys on any court in NY, especially with an early start time. St Mary's came out flat and still had a lead, and us in foul trouble. St Mary's got their blood flowing and it felt like they were about to blow it open. Ace gets hurt. We looked totally lost and St Mary's blows it open. Game over.
Im sorry, but that's not OK. No, I wouldn't expect that. St Mary's was #2 in the WCC, not the SEC.
But to me it exposed us as a very athletic team with low hoops skill levels and low maturity. We could defend one on one because we were more athletic. We didn't play zone very well because we didn't practice it very much. (I assume...I've haven't been to a hoops practice since the 80s). We couldn't shoot well, because great athletes who can shoot usually end up at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc. We didn't recruit actual bigs because they're "not athletic enough", so teams with real size could dominate the paint and get us into foul trouble.
We had the best player on the best team in the A-10 hence the POY. DPOY? He may not have been the best guard, defensively, on the VCU team, especially actually covering a quick guard man to man. Digging steals from the bigs, yes very good at that. Getting in the passing lane for interceptions, also very good at that.
Regardless, after being exposed, then you can analyze it and say, yes, we really never had a chance to beat St Marys. VCU 2022/23 was the best team in the very weak A10 and earned the auto-bid. We were probably over-seeded at 12 and should have been a 14 or 15. At large?? I guess you never know, but I don't think we had much of a chance.
So excited for the future and to see the 2023/24 roster perform.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2013
- Posts
- 1,946
- Likes
- 2,900
st marys had more balance than we did and far more battle tested in their regular season and conference schedules
We allowed them to control the tempo of the game and isolate our players on Defense (especially inside) and get us in foul trouble inside - z have always felt that VCU should play some zone during the season to prepare for the late season when someone gets 2 early fouls but you still need them on the court - MR was obstinate to not do that and that is on him especially given our lack of experience depth inside throughout the year (you can hide this deficiency in the A10 but not against the P6 and top mid majors
they were simply a better team in my opinion - they have an excellent coach, though I don't think coaching cost us the game - to me the only player that played without the deer in the headlight look was Ace
We allowed them to control the tempo of the game and isolate our players on Defense (especially inside) and get us in foul trouble inside - z have always felt that VCU should play some zone during the season to prepare for the late season when someone gets 2 early fouls but you still need them on the court - MR was obstinate to not do that and that is on him especially given our lack of experience depth inside throughout the year (you can hide this deficiency in the A10 but not against the P6 and top mid majors
they were simply a better team in my opinion - they have an excellent coach, though I don't think coaching cost us the game - to me the only player that played without the deer in the headlight look was Ace
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Posts
- 13,145
- Likes
- 28,995
I'd add Brandon to that list - he knew what he wanted to do but was very frustrated trying to do it (which eventually led to a pure aggravation foul late)