Players 2023-24 Roster Thread

[RamLover]

VCU had an at-large worthy resume (metrics, record, reg season/conf tourney finish, etc) and, I suspect, would’ve replaced Nevada in the field had the Rams lost Sunday.

Had that Sunday loss to Dayton happened:
Big 10 = 8 bids (no 19-14 10th place Rutgers)
Big 12 = 7 bids (no 18-15 7th place Ok St)
MWC = 3 bids (no 21-10 4th place Nevada)
A-10 = 2 bids (yes 26-8 1st place VCU)

Notes:
1. 218 of 229 BM brackets had Rutgers dancing. The committee didn’t even have Rutgers First Four out.
2. Only 71 of 229 brackets had Nevada (a non-P6) dancing. The committee did. That speaks to “committee composition.”
3. Oklahoma St was 18-15, 7th place (of 10) in the Big 12. Early B-12 tourney ouster.
4. P6 vs non-P6 at-large bids is a thing. It ended up 31 to 5. That’s typical (and political). Had the committee selected Rutgers or Okla St instead of Nevada (or VCU if applicable), it would’ve been 32 to 4 (a record P6-favoring split)
5. # of bids per conference is a thing. The committee generally leans toward “bid balance” if feasible/reasonable resumes exist (hence I opine it would’ve been MWC = 3, A-10 = 2 instead of MWC = 4, A-10 = 1).
5. Politics. Understand the makeup of the committee (people in the room). Bids = $$$, prestige, power, equity, etc.

With the A-10 having a team (VCU) potentially bubblicious at 3pm Selection Sunday, this likely came down to 21-win Nevada (potential 4th MWC bid) and 26-win VCU (potential 2nd A-10 bid) for that last at-large spot (had the Rams lost). I suspect that last at-large spot was going to a non-P6 regardless and both Nevada/VCU were really the only remaining worthy candidates.

History, IMO, likely would’ve favored the 26-8 Rams.
1) A-10 reg season champ by 3 games
2) Advanced to conf tourney final
3) 26 wins, 1st place finish in a Top 12 conf
4) At-large worthy metrics (NET, wins over Pitt, Vandy, Dayton)
5. Rich (and recent) regular tourney history (participant). A known quantity.

Our victory Sunday over Dayton likely got Nevada in (4th MWC bid, 5th non-P6 at-large).

You are entitled to believe otherwise.

And I do believe otherwise. History means nothing to the selection committee, and the committee does not care if any league is a one-bid league. They don’t care if we were the A10 regular season champs. We were relying on Dayton, Vandy, and Pitt as our best wins, and we had two Q4 losses. We were not getting an at-large.

The committee doesn’t give a crap about anything you just typed.

 

[GuardTheArc]

And I do believe otherwise. History means nothing to the selection committee, and the committee does not care if any league is a one-bid league. They don’t care if we were the A10 regular season champs. We were relying on Dayton, Vandy, and Pitt as our best wins, and we had two Q4 losses. We were not getting an at-large.

The committee doesn’t give a crap about anything you just typed.

Incorrect

 

[VCU Heel]

Incorrect

LMFAO

Same crap every year.

 

[BaNgMyPrOgRaM]

Well to be fair I think we would've gotten in too. But who wants to lose to Dayton? I mean if GMU sucks then Dayton blows!

 

[RamDanFan]

I don't know, man....Rams/St Marys played 3/17....PSU lost to Texas the next day. Shrewsberry may or may not have known he was gonna leave....but let's not forget that PSU ripped through a who's who of candidates before they settled on (and overpaid) MR.

Fermin barely played....and that was with DeLoach absolutely laying a massive egg and Johns living in foul trouble.
Heck the entire bench and JJ shot 4-19 from the field....pretty awful "team effort"

postgame, I'm sure MR was thinkin he'd be running it back in RVa for the next season....it's not like he was a super sexy candidate for any NORMAL P6 position.

Fermin‘s last game action prior to playing 6 crucial minutes against St. Mary’s in a NCAA tournament game was 1 junk minute in a blowout win against St. Joseph’s on February 21st. That’s 4 games back into the regular season! You could go back through the entire season and easily argue that he played no meaningful minutes all year, yet there he was in Albany taking center stage in the most important game of the year. Look, I got nothing against him. I lean towards Rhoades under utilizing him throughout the year, especially in our blowout games. It’s not like that was the 1st game of the year our bigs got in foul trouble. Foul trouble or not, I don’t know many coaches that make that kind of strategic decision on that stage.

Earl Grant, from BC, was the only other coach, that reportedly, Penn State reached out to prior to Rhoades. So no massive list of coaches they pursued prior to Rhoades. Remember, Rhoades was already positioning himself for the Georgetown gig prior to when Penn State came calling. He already knew there would be an opportunity for his big pay day the moment we took the A 10 tournament. Knowing that, I seriously doubt he had any intention of returning postgame, so I will continue to question ulterior motives.

People have no problem thinking something like this could be true for WW, yet Rhoades gets the choir boy treatment. I don’t get it.

 

[RamLover]

Incorrect

Ok. I think you’re putting way too much weight on the past and not enough on the resumes they use now. It’s really simple.

I hate to see you doing ALL of that researching and thinking and writing and comparing and contrasting and listing just to come to the completely wrong conclusions, but to each their own.

 

[TampaKAP]

Fermin‘s last game action prior to playing 6 crucial minutes against St. Mary’s in a NCAA tournament game was 1 junk minute in a blowout win against St. Joseph’s on February 21st. That’s 4 games back into the regular season! You could go back through the entire season and easily argue that he played no meaningful minutes all year, yet there he was in Albany taking center stage in the most important game of the year. Look, I got nothing against him. I lean towards Rhoades under utilizing him throughout the year, especially in our blowout games. It’s not like that was the 1st game of the year our bigs got in foul trouble. Foul trouble or not, I don’t know many coaches that make that kind of strategic decision on that stage.

Earl Grant, from BC, was the only other coach, that reportedly, Penn State reached out to prior to Rhoades. So no massive list of coaches they pursued prior to Rhoades. Remember, Rhoades was already positioning himself for the Georgetown gig prior to when Penn State came calling. He already knew there would be an opportunity for his big pay day the moment we took the A 10 tournament. Knowing that, I seriously doubt he had any intention of returning postgame, so I will continue to question ulterior motives.

People have no problem thinking something like this could be true for WW, yet Rhoades gets the choir boy treatment. I don’t get it.

This is certainly not an excuse or pass for MR but the current NET does not favor allowing teams, especially those outside the top 50 the luxury to let up of the gas even in blow outs. The difference between a 13 point and a 15 point game game have a significant impact on a teams NET. For the score doesn't matter its efficiency crowd, another way to say it is extra missed shots hurts NET. Not saying Fermin would have missed shots or that he shouldn't have played but I understand why coaches that have limited opportunities to improve the team NET may play certain players more than they may have in the past.

 

[80sRamBaseballRugby]

Exactly. After the Jacksonville loss we were essentially out of the At Large conversation. No real mathematical way to get there except to boost efficiency numbers by playing starters and trying to run up the margin of victory (by not missing shots and making the other team miss).

Once we made the NCAA Tournament, MR could do as he pleased. We were in the tournament. That's why he was free to sub Fermin and Tobi early in the game. And those two actually played pretty well on the defensive end. We couldn't seem to take advantage of their strong play on the offensive end.

So, to me it seemed that MR thought we still had a chance at an AT LARGE late in the season. Personally, I don't think we did. Metrics-wise we were the lowest 12 seed. Eye test wise, we could have been seeded lower. I think we hung on to the 12 seed due to metrics mainly, and our team and conference brands secondarily. If we had lost to Dayton in the final, I would have been glued to the TV on Selection Sunday hoping for a bid. I would have been mildly surprised and super excited if we got one.

I can believe what I want. I've been a college hoops fan for 50 years, and continue to play the sport (poorly) today. Been a loyal Rams fan since I stepped foot on the campus in 1982. GO RAMS!!

To tie this into the 23/24 Roster, hopefully our young bigs can improve over the summer on the offensive side of the ball so their defensive efforts are rewarded with points on the other end.

 

[VCU74]

<snip>

To tie this into the 23/24 Roster, hopefully our young bigs can improve over the summer on the offensive side of the ball so their defensive efforts are rewarded with points on the other end.

^^^^So much this^^^^

One of the frustrating things over the past however long you want to go- too many times a supreme defensive effort was rewarded only by the bad guys not scoring(which is cool) Watching tho, for me, there were too many times I was feeling grateful, or surprised, or (don’t know the right word)? if it turned into a payoff with points on the other end. Not necessarily transition points even.

I guess what I’m saying is I’m looking forward to offense with a purpose or an emphasis as opposed to…. I dunno, something you have to do after defense?

this incoherent post brought to you by Legend IPL, a 6.3 lager they’re selling for $20 a case right now, I think because it’s over carbonated. Not a problem tho if you know how longneck bottles work.

Mention my name and you’ll get it for $20!
/my NIL needs work🫤

 

[Mr X]

^^^^So much this^^^^

One of the frustrating things over the past however long you want to go- too many times a supreme defensive effort was rewarded only by the bad guys not scoring(which is cool) Watching tho, for me, there were too many times I was feeling grateful, or surprised, or (don’t know the right word)? if it turned into a payoff with points on the other end. Not necessarily transition points even.

I guess what I’m saying is I’m looking forward to offense with a purpose or an emphasis as opposed to…. I dunno, something you have to do after defense?

this incoherent post brought to you by Legend IPL, a 6.3 lager they’re selling for $20 a case right now, I think because it’s over carbonated. Not a problem tho if you know how longneck bottles work.

Mention my name and you’ll get it for $20!
/my NIL needs work🫤

Heck yes! Hooray for offense! I am good with 80-70 wins

 

[Havoc City]

Had VCU lost, they likely/conceivably slot into 46 (11 seed; last at-large) and Dayton into 50 (last 12-seed). Completely appropriate. VCU 1st place reg season 26-8. Dayton 2nd place 23-11. Committee doesn’t need to touch the bracket (just find and replace). Committee likely determined Saturday (once they knew it was VCU vs Dayton on Sunday) the A-10 auto-bid was getting the 50 slot, regardless.

Had the Rams lost:
VCU vs Arizona St (First Four in Dayton)
Dayton vs St Mary’s (Albany)

The committee, when dealing with fairly similar profiles, has done that (find and replace) several times with the bracket in the past based on a few Sunday outcomes.

We won the A10, and the committee slotted us as #50. Your argument, however, is that if we'd lost to Dayton, they would have ranked us higher?

George Orwell would be proud of this logic.

 

[Mercury]

We won the A10, and the committee slotted us as #50. Your argument, however, is that if we'd lost to Dayton, they would have ranked us higher?

George Orwell would be proud of this logic.

VCU would have been ranked higher because the lowest seed an at large team can be is an 11.

If you understand the seed ranking process the logic checks out.

 

[BaNgMyPrOgRaM]

Exactly. After the Jacksonville loss we were essentially out of the At Large conversation. No real mathematical way to get there except to boost efficiency numbers by playing starters and trying to run up the margin of victory (by not missing shots and making the other team miss).

Once we made the NCAA Tournament, MR could do as he pleased. We were in the tournament. That's why he was free to sub Fermin and Tobi early in the game. And those two actually played pretty well on the defensive end. We couldn't seem to take advantage of their strong play on the offensive end.

So, to me it seemed that MR thought we still had a chance at an AT LARGE late in the season. Personally, I don't think we did. Metrics-wise we were the lowest 12 seed. Eye test wise, we could have been seeded lower. I think we hung on to the 12 seed due to metrics mainly, and our team and conference brands secondarily. If we had lost to Dayton in the final, I would have been glued to the TV on Selection Sunday hoping for a bid. I would have been mildly surprised and super excited if we got one.

I can believe what I want. I've been a college hoops fan for 50 years, and continue to play the sport (poorly) today. Been a loyal Rams fan since I stepped foot on the campus in 1982. GO RAMS!!

To tie this into the 23/24 Roster, hopefully our young bigs can improve over the summer on the offensive side of the ball so their defensive efforts are rewarded with points on the other end.

Yeah playing Fermin and Lawal was a head scratcher, not then but now. I guess the 🐍thought we needed some height. But Johns and JJ were doing just fine in that game early.

And the NET is killing it for me in college basketball, not in a good way. Takes away from the development of players and kills sportsmanship.

 

[AlienAiden]

Fats Billups is someone that people do not talk about too much. He is a 4⭐️ highly touted recruit. 6'7 2-guard. His jumper looked fluid early in the year. He was lost on D but on offense he was trending in a good direction. His hand/wrist injury derailed his freshman growth on the court. I wonder what role he will play in Odom's offense where he likes the players to spread the floor looking for open shots especially from 3.

 

[rammad90]

Fats Billups is someone that people do not talk about too much. He is a 4⭐️ highly touted recruit. 6'7 2-guard. His jumper looked fluid early in the year. He was lost on D but on offense he was trending in a good direction. His hand/wrist injury derailed his freshman growth on the court. I wonder what role he will play in Odom's offense where he likes the players to spread the floor looking for open shots especially from 3.

I think he is an X factor. Someone stated last year that KW had stated that he was a bit timid. That assessment was dismissed. I think KW was correct.

I also think Fats has what it takes to be a very good VCU player and his year on the team while maintaining his year of eligibility will pay dividends.

Again, X factor as Fats has time to grow into his position.