Allen Payne - Visiting on 9/26 & VCU leads his recruiting

[Mistachill]

http://www.ohshoops.com/2009/09/payne-o ... orite.html

"VCU (Virginia Commonwealth) is in the lead right now and Coach (Shaka) Smart visited the school yesterday morning for a brief meeting," Payne noted. "I have an official visit to VCU scheduled on the weekend of September twenty-sixth."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recruitin ... eason=2010

July, 2009: Payne is a lefty who can affect the game on both ends of the floor. He was swift with the basketball on drives going left, but when forced right could only compose one or two dribbles in straight line. In the open court, Payne moved across the floor with the ball at a high-speed. He showed a light touch on left hand finishes in the lane and was able to get the ball off at different angles. However, he needs to work on finishing with his right hand. Payne did a good job of keeping his pivots long in the lane so he could step by defenders when cut off. There were occasions foreshadowing that he could become a decent rebounder at the college level, but he lacks assertiveness. Defensively, he took two on ball charges and was able to guard

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... ayne-68257

*** One question I have for people more familiar with state and local H.S. ball: when Coach Smart arrived he mentioned focusing on local recruits but most of his prospects have been outside of the area. Is the talent level in the state lacking right now or is coach pretty much doing what Grant did and working the areas he's most familiar with and has the most contacts?

 

[VRam]

Sounds like a good one. ESPN rates him at 90.

 

[AG_fan]

IMO, the problem with recruiting locally -- and in-state, to a degree -- is that there seems to be two distinct tiers of kids in Virginia: the star-quality kids (Davis, McKie, Hairston, etc. -- the list goes on an on) who almost always go outside the state to play their college ball in a BCS league, and the kids who could become solid D-I players but have something (too short, not athletic enough, questionable grades, etc.) that coaches think will keep them from being instant impact players.

It's especially tough for mid-majors because we generally can't get kids from Group 1, and we don't know if kids from Group 2 are good enough to play on our level.

We were fortunate to land Burgess and Rozzell b/c both happened to fall somewhere in between -- good players from terrific HS programs, not good enough to get UNC or Duke involved. But they are the exceptions when it comes to recruiting in Virginia, and identifying them isn't easy.

 

[bighorn]

*** One question I have for people more familiar with state and local H.S. ball: when Coach Smart arrived he mentioned focusing on local recruits but most of his prospects have been outside of the area. Is the talent level in the state lacking right now or is coach pretty much doing what Grant did and working the areas he's most familiar with and has the most contacts?[/quote]

That's an easy one, Chill. VCU now has it's fourth head coach in a nine-season span. Is there another school in the nation with such a turnover?

Carrying that idea further, the list assistance coaches "just passing through" during that period is almost too many to list. It's natural for anyone, fresh on any job, to rely on what's been good to them in the past, to stick with their comfort zone rather than getting a roadmap to explore the unknown.

That said, VCU's success on the floor has been top-notch, despite the unusual script of "hit 'n' run coaches;" the downside is that the revolving door hasn't allowed for much cultivation of the area landscape.

Rozzell and Burgess were nice pickups - but not really difference makers; they're more pieces to the puzzle as opposed to "centerpieces."

VCU swung and missed on the area's best prospect of '08 - Ed Davis; of '09 - Cadarian Raines; and '10 - Travis Mckie. Still uncommitted Justin Coleman, Class of '10, would be a longer than long shot for the Rams.

Remaining are the best of '11 - Trey Davis, Matt Gorski, Michael Gbinjie ... and perhaps Jordan Burgess (Brad's brother). However, in each of those cases, VCU's newly on-board coaching staff will have much catching up to do - and that's how it's been for some time.

 

[AG_fan]

Bighorn, I agree that the constant shuffling on the coaching staff hasn't helped, but it's far from the only factor. If it were, then VCU would be the only Virginia school (mid-major and up) comprised of mostly out-of-state players, and we're not:

* Mason has two Virginia players (Long and Hancock) on its current roster, and Long barely counts as he grew up in Florida before moving to Woodbridge in high school
* JMU has three: one transfer (Bowles), one freshman (White) and one walk-on (Renkin)
* W&M has three: Brown, Sumner and Treherne
* Richmond has three: Brothers, Harper and Butler
* VT has four, including three freshmen: Raines, Boggs and Green
* UVa has four: Spurlock, Scott, Evans and Baker
* VCU also has four: Burgess, Rozzell, Theus and Daniels
* ODU, with six, is the only school in the state to land more than 33 percent of its current scholarship players from within Virginia.

There is a lot of very good HS basketball being played in Virginia; there just aren't that many quality mid-major-level HS players, so the coaches have to look elsewhere.

 

[Wolfpack Ram]

[/quote]One question I have for people more familiar with state and local H.S. ball: when Coach Smart arrived he mentioned focusing on local recruits but most of his prospects have been outside of the area. Is the talent level in the state lacking right now or is coach pretty much doing what Grant did and working the areas he's most familiar with and has the most contacts?[/quote]

Two out of our three recruits that are freshmen this year are from Virginia. That's 50% of Coach Smart's recruits since taking the VCU job if you throw in Brandenberg. So how are we missing the boat on in state recruits? Also Davis, Raines and McKie all went to ACC schools.

 

[Mistachill]

Wolfpack, I referencing current recruiting focus (I should've clarified that). If you think about it, for a new coach coming on board in the middle of the late signing period, your best shot of signing anyone is probably going to be in-state. If you remember, when Grant was hired he had an availble scholarship and left it unaccounted for until the next recruiting class.

To me, the 2010 class will be the first group for Coach Smart to recruit through a more normal recruiting cycle, thus more reflective of his recruiting philosophy, in my opinion.

One question I have for people more familiar with state and local H.S. ball: when Coach Smart arrived he mentioned focusing on local recruits but most of his prospects have been outside of the area. Is the talent level in the state lacking right now or is coach pretty much doing what Grant did and working the areas he's most familiar with and has the most contacts?

Two out of our three recruits that are freshmen this year are from Virginia. That's 50% of Coach Smart's recruits since taking the VCU job if you throw in Brandenberg. So how are we missing the boat on in state recruits? Also Davis, Raines and McKie all went to ACC schools.

 

[MozingoWasFilthy]

Burgess was a very nice piece (43% from trey-land)...............and I'm hoping Rozzell turns the corner this year.

We've had Dom Jones, Michael Doles, BA Walker, Jesse Pellot-Rosa, Derrick Reid, Troy Daniels, Darius Theus, Brad Burgess, Brandon Rozzell, even Nick George/Troy Godwin (nearby MD), Mark Adams, Wil Fameni (Amelia Academy), Mike Anderson, etc. Varying degrees of studliness from this "local" bunch.

We're a mid-major..........we're not getting the cream of the crop. However, we've "mined" the second-tier very well.........and uncovered some real gems.

We've had some fairly nice VA/MD representation over the past eight years IMO..........despite the 3-4 yr coaching tenures, which, by the way, I'll take any day of the week if they are the result of success, titles, dancing, etc. UVA, Tech, UR would love to have our record/success/post-season appearances over the past eight yrs.

Ask Xavier alum the same thing.........they lost Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller to BCS-land because they regularly danced. We lost Capel/Grant for the same reason(s). I hope we lose Shaka in 3-4 yrs because we've danced some more.

 

[bighorn]

Let's not confuse "state" and "local" and use the terms interchangeably.

I don't see Northern Virginia, the Roanoke area, Tidewater, etc., being much different than going hunting in North Carolina, Baltimore or West Virginia for talent - VCU remains a relative unknown, in terms of regular media attention and bombardment of word-of-mouth conversation - in the more distant outposts of the Commonwealth.

Try going to Waynesboro, South Boston, Winchester, for example, and find someone at the lunch counter you can chat Ram hoops with ...

Once you get much past King's Dominion to the north, Petersburg to the south, maybe Goochland to the west and New Kent to the east, VCU "home-town" edge fades in regard to recruitment.

To sink a hook into the really prized fish, a coach needs to test the waters for 2-3 years in advance. VCU's chances with the likes of Andre Ingram, Bombale Osby, Tyrese Rice, Brad Byerson and Vernon Hamilton might have been increased with longer-tenured coaches.

All said, this is not a major problem - for now - because VCU's "relay team" of coaches has done a commendable job passing their recruits along to the next guy.

 

[Mistachill]

I totally disagree with that statement. Maybe once upon a time, but not anymore, especially in the b-ball world.

VCU remains a relative unknown, in terms of regular media attention and bombardment of word-of-mouth conversation - in the more distant outposts of the Commonwealth.

 

[Rambunctious]

Ohio is the new Florida for VCU basketball

 

[bighorn]

I totally disagree with that statement. Maybe once upon a time, but not anymore, especially in the b-ball world.

VCU remains a relative unknown, in terms of regular media attention and bombardment of word-of-mouth conversation - in the more distant outposts of the Commonwealth.

Chill - let me explain further.

Let's take JM's Travis McKie, for example. We can all agree VCU would love to have him.

The 4-star Richmonder grew going to VCU's summer camp, mainly because it's about two miles from his house; going to Rams' games at the Siegel Center; actually getting to know the Rams' players in pickup games and summer leagues; attending the CAA tournament; reading about VCU and hearing/seeing VCU on electonic media, continuously from November to March; and being able to talk about VCU basketball with all his high-school friends and teammates, who were as up on the subject as he.

Consider: do you think the Greg Burton of Martinsville would be radio broadcasting live from the Rams' NCAA tournament game site, two full days ahead of tipoff, as was the case this past winter?

Do you think the CAA tournament finals would be the lead story on the Front Page of the Staunton newspaper? Would he have gotten to know Eric Maynor personally, if he'd resided in Gloucester?

Now, if McKie had grown up as far as away as - let's say - Suffolk, Manassas or Lynchburg - it is unlikely any of those critical factors would have worked so strongly in VCU's favor.

 

[Rambler]

Are we going to have the smallest team in the CAA next year? How are we going to compete at the next level with such a small lineup? Should Larry leave after this season, we'll only have 3 players on our roster that are 6-8+. That's not going to get it done against the BCS schools in the NCAA Tourney. Shouldn't we only be considering kids that are 6-8+ at this point?

 

[Half-baked Mcbride]

I totally disagree with that statement. Maybe once upon a time, but not anymore, especially in the b-ball world.

VCU remains a relative unknown, in terms of regular media attention and bombardment of word-of-mouth conversation - in the more distant outposts of the Commonwealth.

Chill - let me explain further.

Let's take JM's Travis McKie, for example. We can all agree VCU would love to have him.

The 4-star Richmonder grew going to VCU's summer camp, mainly because it's about two miles from his house; going to Rams' games at the Siegel Center; actually getting to know the Rams' players in pickup games and summer leagues; attending the CAA tournament; reading about VCU and hearing/seeing VCU on electonic media, continuously from November to March; and being able to talk about VCU basketball with all his high-school friends and teammates, who were as up on the subject as he.

Consider: do you think the Greg Burton of Martinsville would be radio broadcasting live from the Rams' NCAA tournament game site, two full days ahead of tipoff, as was the case this past winter?

Do you think the CAA tournament finals would be the lead story on the Front Page of the Staunton newspaper? Would he have gotten to know Eric Maynor personally, if he'd resided in Gloucester?

Now, if McKie had grown up as far as away as - let's say - Suffolk, Manassas or Lynchburg - it is unlikely any of those critical factors would have worked so strongly in VCU's favor.

Nah...I don't buy it Bighorn. We're known to the Media that matters. On this board alone, you can find complimentary articles from Spoting News, ESPN, NBA.com, Fox Sports...just to name a few. These smaller media outlets your bemoaning are just that....
small
media
outlets
Their main focus is the local story...as it should be (and for the record, thr RTD does some shoddy work in this dept.) I live in WInchester, Va....the main stories are Shenandoah University, Sherando HS, John Handley HS and then whatever AP stuff is culled from the wire to NOT take the space of local business ads.

Furthermore....There was a lovely article on Maynor last March in the Winchester Star....but I couldn't post it because of their draconian website.

I'm sure Staunton papers do a crackerjack job reporting on the Mary Baldwin Fighting Squirrels and their end of the season loss to Meredith College.
I'm sure whatever rag exists in LBG covers the heck out of Liberty University




SO let's get this thread back on topic

Allen Payne would be a GREAT GET for VCU....definately seems like a quality player and would probably grow from a SF to a PF before his career is said and done

 

[bighorn]

We can disagree to agree, 1/2 baked - but in Richmond the Times-Dispatch devoted 1,650 column inches to VCU hoops from November through March, counting game stories, previews, photos, notes, player features and other assorted items.

It would be my guess that that level of publicity - virtually all upbeat - would be difficult to attain in any other location.

Glad you brought up Mary Baldwin, though; we're probably the only people on the boards who know that MBC's nickname is the Fighting Squirrels.

Just two Saturdays ago, I played co-ed softball with the mother of Fighting Squirrel Jennifer Dobson, a basketball player from James River High.

There is something totally unique - and shocking - about the private Staunton school that you might have caught wind of, Baked. And I'm not talking about it's close proximity to Woodrow Wilson's birthplace.